Michael Kleefeld wrote in a message to Mark Timbers:

 MT>> Have taken a quick look at 7.05 ..

 MK>> Where you have looked?

 MT> Try drdos.org and/or drdos.net It's been a while, can't remember
 MT> which one had it.. :)

 MK> Thanks, i will try ..

If you don't find it I'm willing to send it to you via email. :)

Mark Timbers

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Timbers BBS-Huntington,IN-260.356.6297-V.Everything (1:11/204)
                                                                                  

Hi All,
   I heard that there is a version of DOS that supports Long File
Names.

   Has anyone tried it? What do you think of it and how well does it
work?

   Thanks for your time.

   Regards,
           Raymond

... "If humans have orgasms, do the Borg have Borgasms?"

--- Ezycom V2.00 01FA025E
 * Origin: Gallifrey - HyperStuff/THDProScan/InfoMail Support (3:713/910)
          

Hello Raymond,

 RR>    I heard that there is a version of DOS that supports Long File
 RR> Names.

 RR>    Has anyone tried it? What do you think of it and how well does it
 RR> work?

I have used DR-Dos with the FAT32 drivers. It does work, but I found it to be a 
memory hog. DR-Dos can't create a FAT32 partition, so you need to do that some 
other way. I wish DR-Dos could create and use a FAT32 (or maybe some other file 
system) partition.. but it's not so.. I don't know about freedos, I've been 
meaning to have a look at it but haven't had the chance yet.

 Ttyl :-),
         Al

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Vancouver, B.C. Canada (1:153/757)
                                                                                            

Alan Ianson wrote in a message to Raymond Rosch:

 RR>    I heard that there is a version of DOS that supports Long File
 RR> Names.

 AI> I have used DR-Dos with the FAT32 drivers. It does work, but I
 AI> found it to be a memory hog. DR-Dos can't create a FAT32 partition,
 AI> so you need to do that some other way. I wish DR-Dos could create
 AI> and use a FAT32 (or maybe some other file system) partition.. but
 AI> it's not so.. I don't know about freedos, I've been meaning to have
 AI> a look at it but haven't had the chance yet. 

I've used fdisk from DR-Dos 7.03 to partion and format FAT32. Have not used the 
FAT32 drivers but have used FreeDOS. The FAT32 version uses about the same 
amount of memory as the FAT16 version. Both FAT16 and FAT32 versions of FreeDOS 
will get you past the 8 gig limit. Have full use of a 30 gig drive. :)

Sorry but I do not know if long file names are support by FreeDOS.

Mark Timbers

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Timbers BBS-Huntington,IN-260.356.6297-V.Everything (1:11/204)
                                                                                                                        

Hello Mark,


 AI> I have used DR-Dos with the FAT32 drivers. It does work, but I
 AI> found it to be a memory hog. DR-Dos can't create a FAT32 partition,
 AI> so you need to do that some other way. I wish DR-Dos could create
 AI> and use a FAT32 (or maybe some other file system) partition.. but
 AI> it's not so.. I don't know about freedos, I've been meaning to have
 AI> a look at it but haven't had the chance yet. 

 MT> I've used fdisk from DR-Dos 7.03 to partion and format 
 MT> FAT32. Have not used the FAT32 drivers but have used 
 MT> FreeDOS. 

I knew fdisk from DR-Dos 7.03 could recognize a FAT32 prtition but didn't 
realize it could create one..

 MT> The FAT32 version uses about the same amount of memory as the FAT16  MT> 
version. Both FAT16 and FAT32 versions of FreeDOS will get you past
 MT> the 8 gig limit. Have full use of a 30 gig drive. :)

Wow, I never knew about FAT32 support in freedos. Now I'll have to go try it... 
 ;) Where can I find the installer for it?

 Ttyl :-),
         Al

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Vancouver, B.C. Canada (1:153/757)
                                                

Hi Alan,

You wrote to Mark Timbers on 23.10.02 about "Long Filenames in Dos":

[snip]
MT>> I've used fdisk from DR-Dos 7.03 to partion and format
MT>> FAT32. Have not used the FAT32 drivers but have used
MT>> FreeDOS.

AI> I knew fdisk from DR-Dos 7.03 could recognize a FAT32 prtition
AI> but didn't realize it could create one..

FDISK /X
provides the "extras" as regards the additional types of  
partitions it will create Alan.

TTFN,

Archie

--- CrossPoint [OpenXP/16] v3.40 RC3 R
 * Origin: Templar's Refuge (2:250/333.2)
                                                                                                              

Hello Archie,

AI> I knew fdisk from DR-Dos 7.03 could recognize a FAT32 prtition
AI> but didn't realize it could create one..

 AS> FDISK /X provides the "extras" as regards the additional types of  
 AS> partitions it will create Alan.

That is good to know.. does it create a formated and ready to go FAT32 partion 
the way it does with FAT16? That's excellent. :)

 Ttyl :-),
         Al

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Vancouver, B.C. Canada (1:153/757)
                                  

Hi Alan,

You wrote on 25.10.02 about "Long Filenames in Dos":

AI>> I knew fdisk from DR-Dos 7.03 could recognize a FAT32 prtition
AI>> but didn't realize it could create one..

AS>> FDISK /X provides the "extras" as regards the additional types
AS>> of partitions it will create Alan.

AI> That is good to know.. does it create a formated and ready to go
AI> FAT32 partion the way it does with FAT16? That's excellent. :)

That's what the brief words about FDISK's /X parameter in DOSBOOK  
say.
Best way to find out, is to have a careful play with it. :)

TTFN,

Archie

--- CrossPoint [OpenXP/16] v3.40 RC3 R
 * Origin: Templar's Refuge (2:250/333.2)
                                                                                                                 

Alan Ianson wrote in a message to Archie Swan:

 AS> FDISK /X provides the "extras" as regards the additional types of  
 AS> partitions it will create Alan.

 AI> That is good to know.. does it create a formated and ready to go
 AI> FAT32 partion the way it does with FAT16? That's excellent. :)

Yes, the FAT32 will be formated and "ready to go". It does make life easier...


Mark Timbers

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Timbers BBS-Huntington,IN-260.356.6297-V.Everything (1:11/204)
                     

RR>Hi All,
RR>   I heard that there is a version of DOS that supports Long File
RR>Names.

I think there is such a version, but can't remember which version it is.

However, there is a web site called "Interesting DOS Programs" that I
believe has links to a few DOS utilities (TSRs, I think) that give
LFN support to DOS.  I have not used them, so I cannot say how well they
work.

I also don't have the web site address handy, but a search on the name
of the site always yields it for me.  ;-)

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * A restless eye across a weary room...


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                                                      

This message was from CHARLES ANGELICH to ALL,
originally in conference FI Win95  
and was forwarded to you by MIKE POWELL.
                    -------------------------
Hello All -

I've read mesages posted in this echo of users who want DOS
level access to their W9x hard drives, usually for backups or
'cloning' to a new drive.

This seemed relevant?

GPL'd with source available:

http://www.odi.ch/prog/prog.php
http://www.odi.ch/prog/lfn/index.php
http://www.odi.ch/prog/lfn/lfn.zip

A derived work from the above - backup utility:

http://people.freenet.de/herbert.reichardt/download.htm
http://people.freenet.de/herbert.reichardt/lback_022.zip

>
>        ,                                         ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich  - DOS Ghost        \o       ,
>     <|      www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost      |>  __o/
>     / >   www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/faf   < \   __\__

___ * ATP/16bit 2.31 *
... Xmas Music! www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/faf/snowsc.htm
 
* Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                                         

Hello Raymond,

 RR>    I heard that there is a version of DOS that supports Long File
 RR> Names. Has anyone tried it? What do you think of it and how well
 RR> does it work?

I'm just looking over freedos beta8 right now. I haven't installed it yet but I 
have booted it from a floppy and it looks good.. even a small mine sweeper game 
on the boot disk.. :) Here's what I found on the util1 disk about lfns..

Begin3
Title:          lfndos
Version:        1.06
Entered-date:   28FEB2002
Description: Provides the Windows 95 long filename API to DOS
             programs. Any DOS program which can use long filenames,
             for example DOS 7 Command.com, edit.com and all DJGPP
             programs, can load and save using them with
             LFNDOS. Designed for Win95 users using DOS-mode, although
             it works under old DOS versions too!
Keywords:       long file name, lfn
Author:         Chris Jones
Maintained-by:  Chris Jones
Primary-site:   http://saturn.spaceports.com/~dosuser/
Original-site:  http://members.nbci.com/dosuser/dosutils.htm
Platforms:      dos
Copying-policy: GNU GPL
End

Freedos can be found at http://freedos.org if you want to take a closer look..

 Ttyl :-),
         Al

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Vancouver, B.C. Canada (1:153/757)
                                                                                                

Replying to a message of Mike Powell to Raymond Rosch:

 RR>> Hi All,
 RR>>   I heard that there is a version of DOS that supports Long File
 RR>> Names.

 MP> I think there is such a version, but can't remember which version it
 MP> is.

 MP> However, there is a web site called "Interesting DOS Programs" that I
 MP> believe has links to a few DOS utilities (TSRs, I think) that give
 MP> LFN support to DOS.  I have not used them, so I cannot say how well
 MP> they work.

 MP> I also don't have the web site address handy, but a search on the name
 MP> of the site always yields it for me.  ;-)

I know there's a DOS App that allows DOS to read (but not write) in OS/2's HPFS 
file system, which itself supports long file names.
Don't remember the name of it, though.

---
 * Origin: Bob's Soapbox (1:379/103.104)
                                                                              

Hello, Bob.

On 05 Nov 02 at 07:38, Bob Ackley wrote to Mike Powell:

 BA> I know there's a DOS App that allows DOS to read (but not write) in
 BA> OS/2's HPFS file system, which itself supports long file names. Don't
 BA> remember the name of it, though.

It's called HPFS-Access and I have it here.  It supports both read and write 
access to HPFS partitions, but alas, it is shareware and crippled... and of 
course, I'm sure the author has disappeared. :(

Later,
Sean

// hausmaus@midnightshour.org | http://midnightshour.org | ICQ: 19965647

--- The Local Console
 * Origin: Midnight's Hour BBS - Carbondale , IL - 618.529.3176 (1:11/200)
                                                                                                                           

Hello, Mike;

23 Oct 02 13:55, Mike Powell wrote to Raymond Rosch:

 MP> However, there is a web site called "Interesting DOS Programs" that I

 MP> I also don't have the web site address handy, but a search on the name

You're probably thinking of

http://www.opus.co.tt/dave/index.htm

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                                        

Hello, All;

This from the mailing list for VDE, the editor I use;

======================[ BEGIN QUOTE ]======================

In anticipation of the release of DR-DOS 8.0, Matthias Paul has
posted an detailed history of DOS, DR-DOS version by version,
from CP/M-80 in 1976, all known and rumored, how it works etc.
along with current relevant DOS links.

<http://www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi?p=opendos/2002/11/20/08:21:11>

Apparently he was part of the Digital Research R&D team and his
information is authoritative, up-to-minute and very complete.

=======================[ END QUOTE ]=======================

DR-DOS's new owners are apparently saying there will be a new release next 
year.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                       

RB> MP> However, there is a web site called "Interesting DOS Programs" that I

RB>You're probably thinking of

RB>http://www.opus.co.tt/dave/index.htm

Yep, that's the one!!  ;-)

Mike
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Gimme three chili dogs and a malt.


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                      

RB>DR-DOS's new owners are apparently saying there will be a new release next
RB>year.

DR-DOS has new owners?  So, Caldera/Lineo sold it?

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * She cried away her life since she fell off the cradle!!


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                        

Hello Mike!

23.11.02 at 15:03, Mike Powell wrote to Robert Bull:

 RB>> DR-DOS's new owners are apparently saying there will be a new
 RB>> release next year.

 MP> DR-DOS has new owners?

Yep.

 MP> So, Caldera/Lineo sold it?

Yep, see http://www.drdos.com for full details.

Regards,
Martin

--- CrossPoint [OpenXP/16] v3.40 RC3 R
 * Origin: Home of the XProject! (2:250/333)
     

Hello, Mike;

23 Nov 02 15:03, Mike Powell wrote to Robert Bull:

 MP> DR-DOS has new owners?  So, Caldera/Lineo sold it?

Yes, a new startup called DeviceLogic.  http://www.devicelogic.com  I 
think, but nothing to d/l yet AFAICS.

 MP>  * SLMR 2.1a * She cried away her life since she fell off the cradle!!
'cos she never had the time to wait in the queue  :-))

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                           

Hello All,

I have the Image files for a DR-DOS version and I would like to make a
bootable floppy disk without installing DR-DOS on my system and overwriting
my current bootloader.

Could I get away with installing the DR-DOS to a RAM disk?

           Cheers ... Gerald

... If everything seems easy, you have obviously overlooked something.
--- GoldED+/386 v1.1.5-30113
 * Origin: A nation of sheep feeds a government of wolves. (1:342/512)
                                                                    

Gerald,

 GM> I have the Image files for a DR-DOS version and I would like to make a
 GM> bootable floppy disk without installing DR-DOS on my system and
 GM> overwriting my current bootloader.

 GM> Could I get away with installing the DR-DOS to a RAM disk?

If you start setup.exe the first time (no FirstTime=NO in setup.ini) you get 
the options 'installation' or 'make a bootable disk'. By selcting 'make a ..' 
nothing will be installed on the harddisk. The files copied to harddisk after 
start setup.exe are temporary. If something goes wrong you can exit setup.exe 
with alt-x.

|X|
| |icha

--- FMailX 1.22
 * Origin: * Astronik * CM MO V34 X75 * (2:2468/9963)
                                                                                                 

This message was from CHARLES ANGELICH to ALL,
originally in conference FI IDOSBBS
and was forwarded to you by MIKE POWELL.
                    -------------------------
Hello All -

It is mentioned in the "changes.txt" for the updated version of
Arachne that Arachne has been all but dead for the past two
years. This is true. It is also true that the author of Arachne
has said in his own forum at his website that he has no further
interest in developing a DOS version of Arachne.

Fortunately a 'team' of people are working on the Arachne code
and have released an update to v1.70 Arachne as v1.71ue.

The link can be found at my tech website.

Yes, I am "The Ghost in the Machine". LOL

>
>        ,                          ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich      \o       ,
>     <|                              |>  __o/
>     / >          USA, MI           < \   __\__

___ * ATP/16bit 2.31 *
... DOS the Ghost in the Machine! http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/
___ Maximus/2 3.01
 
* Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000)
                                                                                

----- Forwarded message from Matthias Paul
<Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de> -----
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:06:42 +0100
From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>
Reply-To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: JP Software 4DOS 7.50 released on 2003-02-24
To: opendos@delorie.com
 
Hi,
 
Yesterday, JP Software (http://www.jpsoft.com) has officially
released 4DOS 7.50, a powerful replacement for COMMAND.COM
incorporating thousands of convenient feature additions while
still maintaining a high level of compatibility with the
traditional commands. Similar enhanced command processors
exist for OS/2 (4OS2) and NT/2000/XP (4NT).
 
The bad news is, that unless they see some significant sales
of 4DOS (which works fine on any DOS 3.0 or higher, including
in Windows 3.xx/9x/SE/ME DOS boxes (partially even under
NT/2000/XP) and under OS/2, DR DOS 3.31 - 6.0, PalmDOS 1.0,
Novell DOS 7, OpenDOS 7.01, and DR-DOS 7.02 - 7.06) this
might be /the/ (or one of the very) last version(s) of 4DOS,
so I recommend to give it a try. 30-day trial shareware
versions can be downloaded from their site above.
 
The latest issue of 4DOS has many smaller enhancements and
some major new features, see the WHATSNEW.TXT file for details.
 
In particular DR-DOS 7.02+ users might be interested to learn
that the 4DOS help system has been significantly updated to
contain correct information about latest DR-DOS features, and
how to get the most out of this combination. 4DOS 7.50 even
incorporates a few changes to make 4DOS running under DR-DOS
as convenient as possible. Also interesting is, that DeviceLogics,
Inc. (http://www.devicelogics.com, http://www.drdos.com), new
owners of DR-DOS, now also act as a 4DOS distributor.
 
Greetings,
 
 Matthias
 
--
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org
 
"Programs are poems for computers."
 
----- End forwarded message -----
 
##Echobot v2.00b for DOS.  Onward and Upward!!
 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                          

Mike Powell wrote in a message to All:

 MP> ----- Forwarded message from Matthias Paul
 MP> The bad news is, that unless they see some significant sales of
 MP> 4DOS (which works fine on any DOS 3.0 or higher, including in
 MP> Windows 3.xx/9x/SE/ME DOS boxes (partially even under
 MP> NT/2000/XP) and under OS/2, DR DOS 3.31 - 6.0, PalmDOS 1.0,
 MP> Novell DOS 7, OpenDOS 7.01, and DR-DOS 7.02 - 7.06) this
 MP> might be /the/ (or one of the very) last version(s) of 4DOS, so I
 MP> recommend to give it a try. 30-day trial shareware
 MP> versions can be downloaded from their site above.
 MP>  

Mike,

Do you have any idea as to how 4DOS works with FreeDOS fat32?

Mark Timbers

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Timbers BBS-Huntington,IN-260.356.6297-V.Everything (1:11/204)
                                                                                                                  

| Do you have any idea as to how 4DOS works with FreeDOS fat32?
+-[MT=>MP]
 
No, unfortunately.  I received that mail on a DOS list that I am
subscribed to, and forwarded it here, but I have never used 4DOS.
 
Mike
 
##MMR 2.61(beta).  !link MT 03-24-03 08:01 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                

Will Arachne run under Win95b or 98SE in a DOS window with a non-Winmodem?
If not, will it run if I restart in DOS mode?  Is there anything special
I need to do when I set it up in order to get it to run?

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "High as a kite, everybody!  Goofballs!!"-Cheif Wiggum


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
             

 -=> Mike Powell was seen whispering with All <=-

MP> Will Arachne run under Win95b or 98SE in a DOS window with a
MP> non-Winmodem?

I seem to recall that all versions of windows since Win95 won't let any
DOS comm programs grab comport time.

MP> If not, will it run if I restart in DOS mode?

It just might work in full DOS mode.

MP> Is there anything special I need to do when I set it up in order
MP> to get it to run?

It's been a while since I've played with Arachne, but I don't recall
having to do anything special to get it to work.  But then, I work in a
straight DOS environment...unless I'm on the `net, and then I use
Win3.1 to do it.



                ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
                ³   E-Mail:  hmetal@thurston.com   ³
            ÚÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄ¿
            ³   via TransX: lmdmetalbbs@thurston.com   ³
             ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ
             Le Maison De Metal BBS          Lacey, WA.


... Fight Crime: Shoot Back!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* LAKOTA v1.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.03a (#666)
 * Origin: Le Maison De Metal * Lacey, Washington * 360-493-0798 (1:138/5666)
                                                                                                                      

-=> Quoting MIKE POWELL to ALL
-=> 05-17-03 20:15

 MP> Will Arachne run under Win95b or 98SE in a DOS window with a
 MP> non-Winmodem? If not, will it run if I restart in DOS mode?  Is there
 MP> anything special I need to do when I set it up in order to get it to
 MP> run?


it will fine on windows 9x, as long as it's not on NT.
you will have to use its own dialer.

i would recommend setting it up OUTSIDE of windows
for better hardware detection.

i would also recommend using arachne v1.71ue (user edition) 
because it has bug fixes. you can find the link here:

http://www.opus.co.tt/dave/





::: bundat at graffiti dot net :::

... And some fell upon stony ground and had no THC at all.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.44
 * Origin: The File Bank BBS! Makati. Philippines +63-2-896-3116 (6:751/321)
                                                                                               

 -=> Quoting Larry Eggers to Mike Powell <=-

 MP> Will Arachne run under Win95b or 98SE in a DOS window with a
 MP> non-Winmodem?
 LE> I seem to recall that all versions of windows since Win95 won't let
 LE> any DOS comm programs grab comport time.

Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and WinME _will_ allow hardware to be directly
manipulated by applications.  It's the WinNT-series of OSs -- WinNT4,
WinXP, Win2k series -- that won't

Mike might have to put some commands in WIN.INI  Edited by Start, Run,
Sysedit:
Under [Ports] put
COM<port #>:=115200,n,8,1,p
And in SYSTEM.INI under [386Enh] put
COM<port #>FIFO=1

Richard

... |    PackLink / Zoom Modem Support      |

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Another message via PackLink +44(0)2082972486 (2:254/235)
                

RT>Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and WinME _will_ allow hardware to be directly
RT>manipulated by applications.  It's the WinNT-series of OSs -- WinNT4,
RT>WinXP, Win2k series -- that won't

So, WinXP will *not* work with a DOS comm/BBS program?  Interesting.

Thanks for the pointers on the WIN.INI file.  If it comes to it, I will
try those and see if they help!

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                                                          

 -=> Quoting Mike Powell to Richard Town <=-

 RT>Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and WinME _will_ allow hardware to be directly
 RT>manipulated by applications.  It's the WinNT-series of OSs -- WinNT4,
 RT>WinXP, Win2k series -- that won't
 MP> So, WinXP will *not* work with a DOS comm/BBS program?  Interesting.

Dual booted WinNT4 Server and Win95B at one stage and back then there were
mentions of those who were running FD or some other mailer in NT with
some weird fossil that trapped the interrupt calls.  However, whenever I
did it, I could get FD to load and even initialise, but when an incoming
call came in it just froze.  Tried it recently in Win2k Server and nada
either.  Use FD 2.25, etc. and up?

 MP> Thanks for the pointers on the WIN.INI file.  If it comes to it, I
 MP> will try those and see if they help!

Just don't load the commport in Device Manager if an internal modem.
If it's autodetected then disable it in BIOS and disable whatever
toggle there is that provides Windows having BIOS switching control too

Richard

... it's only a hobby, only a hobby, only a hobby, only a hobby, only a

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Another message via PackLink +44(0)2082972486 (2:254/235)
                                                                                 

Hi Mike:

It was Saturday May 24 2003. "Win9x and Arachne ?," murmured you to Richard.

 RT>> Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and WinME _will_ allow hardware to be directly
 RT>> manipulated by applications.  It's the WinNT-series of OSs -- WinNT4,
 RT>> WinXP, Win2k series -- that won't

 MP> So, WinXP will *not* work with a DOS comm/BBS program?  Interesting.

That can't be right.

One application I look after at work is an ancient Clipper program that sends 
faxes via a modem attached to a local com port. It runs on an NT4 system, and 
works fine.

I suspect - if the first statement above is true - that the OS intercepts calls 
to the hardware and handles them itself, whether they come from a program 
running in a DOS box or a Windows app.

Bests,

Tim

--- GoldED 3.0.1-os1 at Oblivion
 * Origin: Points and feeds from Oblivion BBS - 01424-732915 (2:25/108)
                                 

 -=> Richard Town was seen whispering with Larry Eggers <=-

LE> I seem to recall that all versions of windows since Win95 won't let
LE> any DOS comm programs grab comport time.

RT> Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and WinME _will_ allow hardware to be directly
RT> manipulated by applications.  It's the WinNT-series of OSs -- WinNT4,
RT> WinXP, Win2k series -- that won't

Ahhh, I see that my idiot eldest brother once again gave me some bad
info a while back.  Thanks for setting the record straight.




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... "This place has all the attraction of a lanced boil."   - Henry Blake
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* LAKOTA v1.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.03a (#666)
 * Origin: Le Maison De Metal * Lacey, Washington * 360-493-0798 (1:138/5666)
                                                                                                    

 -=> Quoting Tim Parsons to Mike Powell <=-

 RT>> Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and WinME _will_ allow hardware to be directly
 RT>> manipulated by applications.  It's the WinNT-series of OSs -- WinNT4,
 RT>> WinXP, Win2k series -- that won't
 MP> So, WinXP will *not* work with a DOS comm/BBS program?  Interesting.
 TP> That can't be right.

'Fraid so

 TP> One application I look after at work is an ancient Clipper program

But is it a DOS program?

 TP> that sends faxes via a modem attached to a local com port. It runs on
 TP> an NT4 system, and works fine.

Does it run in a DOS box?

 TP> I suspect - if the first statement above is true - that the OS
 TP> intercepts calls to the hardware and handles them itself,

Yes, via a Windows interrupt

 TP> whether they
 TP> come from a program running in a DOS box or a Windows app.

If the application send commands directly to the commport (and thus
your modem), then it just won't work under WinNT4-style OSs

Richard

... The internet has not affected Fido in any way www.hatsoever.com

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Another message via PackLink +44(0)2082972486 (2:254/235)
                         

Hi Richard:

It was Thursday May 29 2003. "Win9x and Arachne ?," murmured you to me.

 MP>> So, WinXP will *not* work with a DOS comm/BBS program?  Interesting.
 TP>> That can't be right.

 RT> 'Fraid so

 TP>> One application I look after at work is an ancient Clipper program

 RT> But is it a DOS program?

Yes; Clipper was a 16-bit DOS xBase compiler. It knows nothing of Windows.

 TP>> that sends faxes via a modem attached to a local com port. It runs
 TP>> on an NT4 system, and works fine.

 RT> Does it run in a DOS box?

No other way of running DOS apps under NT that I'm aware of...

 TP>> I suspect - if the first statement above is true - that the OS
 TP>> intercepts calls to the hardware and handles them itself,

 RT> Yes, via a Windows interrupt

Then Windows must hook the DOS interrupt.

 TP>> whether they
 TP>> come from a program running in a DOS box or a Windows app.

 RT> If the application send commands directly to the commport (and thus
 RT> your modem), then it just won't work under WinNT4-style OSs

Tell that to the GPs the system sends faxes to! The fax gateway app is a 
Clipper prog, running in a DOS box under WinNT Workstation 4, talking to an 
ancient USR Sportster modem attached to Com1.

The main client app - also Clipper - prints to lpt1 fairly successfully, 
without (apparently) Windows being aware of it. Shouldn't that work either? ;-)

Bests,

Tim

--- GoldED 3.0.1-os1 at Oblivion
 * Origin: Points and feeds from Oblivion BBS - 01424-732915 (2:25/108)
                                 

 -=> Quoting Richard Town to Tim Parsons <=-

 -=> Quoting Tim Parsons to Mike Powell <=-
 
 RT>> Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and WinME _will_ allow hardware to be directly
 RT>> manipulated by applications.  It's the WinNT-series of OSs -- WinNT4,
 RT>> WinXP, Win2k series -- that won't
 MP> So, WinXP will *not* work with a DOS comm/BBS program?  Interesting.
 TP> That can't be right.

 RT> 'Fraid so
 
 TP> One application I look after at work is an ancient Clipper program

 RT> But is it a DOS program?
 
 TP> that sends faxes via a modem attached to a local com port. It runs on
 TP> an NT4 system, and works fine.

 RT> Does it run in a DOS box?
 
 TP> I suspect - if the first statement above is true - that the OS
 TP> intercepts calls to the hardware and handles them itself,

 RT> Yes, via a Windows interrupt
 
 TP> whether they
 TP> come from a program running in a DOS box or a Windows app.

 RT> If the application send commands directly to the commport (and thus
 RT> your modem), then it just won't work under WinNT4-style OSs

NT (and OS/2) simply let programs in the DOS box *think* they have a
DOS box to themselves (virtual86 mode on the CPU chip). The OS then
gets to pass on or deny any attempts at direct hardware access. Or for
some types of access it can "filter" the access thru a driver.


--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                            

Hello, Leonard;

31 May 03 03:14, Leonard Erickson wrote to Richard Town:

 LE> NT (and OS/2) simply let programs in the DOS box *think* they have a
 LE> DOS box to themselves (virtual86 mode on the CPU chip). The OS then
 LE> gets to pass on or deny any attempts at direct hardware access. Or for
 LE> some types of access it can "filter" the access thru a driver.

What happens if you install 4DOS/Take Command, and run your terminal / 
fossil / whatever under that?  Is it high enough up the feeding chain to 
circumvent Windows strong-arm tactics?

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                               

 -=> Quoting Robert Bull to Leonard Erickson <=-

 RB> Hello, Leonard;

 RB> 31 May 03 03:14, Leonard Erickson wrote to Richard Town:
 
 LE> NT (and OS/2) simply let programs in the DOS box *think* they have a
 LE> DOS box to themselves (virtual86 mode on the CPU chip). The OS then
 LE> gets to pass on or deny any attempts at direct hardware access. Or for
 LE> some types of access it can "filter" the access thru a driver.

 RB> What happens if you install 4DOS/Take Command, and run your terminal /
 RB> fossil / whatever under that?  Is it high enough up the feeding chain
 RB> to  circumvent Windows strong-arm tactics?

4dos is a replacement for COMMAND.COM. As such, it's running on top of
windows, and in a virtual86 session. so it can't "override" that.

Take command (and 4NT) are running console sessions, so they are still
subject to the limits placed by the OS. And rightfully so.

Basically, Windows NT/2k/XP (and OS/2) are not using "strong-arm
tactics". They are acting *properly* to prevent programs on a
multitasking system from trashing other tasks.

Windows 1.x/2.x/3.x/95/98/ME are *broken* because they *don't* restrict
programs to the alloted RAM and HW access.

Direct hardware access and multitasking don't mix at all well.

--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                                                                                           

Hello, Leonard;

02 Jun 03 18:27, Leonard Erickson wrote to Robert Bull:

 LE> Take command (and 4NT) are running console sessions, so they are still
 LE> subject to the limits placed by the OS. And rightfully so.

 LE> Basically, Windows NT/2k/XP (and OS/2) are not using "strong-arm
 LE> tactics". They are acting *properly* to prevent programs on a
 LE> multitasking system from trashing other tasks.

 LE> Windows 1.x/2.x/3.x/95/98/ME are *broken* because they *don't*
 LE> restrict programs to the alloted RAM and HW access.

 LE> Direct hardware access and multitasking don't mix at all well.

Hmmm, OK.  Starting from scratch, I will probably have to move from 95/98 
to XP at work.  When I do, I still want to be able to take Procomm Plus 
along.  That's partly because it's rock-solid reliable and I don't want to 
change anything, or even recompile scripts for the Windows version of 
Procomm if I can help it.  The other part is that I simply don't like the 
look and feel of GUIs and much prefer a console-mode interface because I 
find the screens much easier and clearer to read.

So, do I take it that Take Command will allow a DOS terminal program to run 
as expected, while still behaving correctly under Windows?

     Thanks in anticipation,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                         

 -=> Quoting Robert Bull to Leonard Erickson <=-

 RB> Hello, Leonard;

 RB> 02 Jun 03 18:27, Leonard Erickson wrote to Robert Bull:
 
 LE> Take command (and 4NT) are running console sessions, so they are still
 LE> subject to the limits placed by the OS. And rightfully so.
 
 LE> Basically, Windows NT/2k/XP (and OS/2) are not using "strong-arm
 LE> tactics". They are acting *properly* to prevent programs on a
 LE> multitasking system from trashing other tasks.
 
 LE> Windows 1.x/2.x/3.x/95/98/ME are *broken* because they *don't*
 LE> restrict programs to the alloted RAM and HW access.
 
 LE> Direct hardware access and multitasking don't mix at all well.

 RB> Hmmm, OK.  Starting from scratch, I will probably have to move from
 RB> 95/98  to XP at work.  When I do, I still want to be able to take
 RB> Procomm Plus  along.  That's partly because it's rock-solid reliable
 RB> and I don't want to  change anything, or even recompile scripts for the
 RB> Windows version of  Procomm if I can help it.  The other part is that I
 RB> simply don't like the  look and feel of GUIs and much prefer a
 RB> console-mode interface because I  find the screens much easier and
 RB> clearer to read. 
 RB> So, do I take it that Take Command will allow a DOS terminal program
 RB> to run  as expected, while still behaving correctly under Windows?

Again, you've got two different things confused. the "command
processor" and the OS.

Take Command sets up a character mode console session. 4NT replaces
CMD.EXE, they both give you a "character mode" *interface* to Windows. 

But either way, hardware access will be controlled by *Windows*, not by
them. Especially under XP. 

Basicly, if you can't run the program from Windows *without* the JP
software product, you aren't likely to get any better results *with*
the JP Software product.


--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                 

Hello, Leonard;

09 Jun 03 02:08, Leonard Erickson wrote to Robert Bull:

 LE> Again, you've got two different things confused. the "command
 LE> processor" and the OS.

<groan>

 LE> CMD.EXE, they both give you a "character mode" *interface* to Windows.

I'm in favour of that...

 LE> Basicly, if you can't run the program from Windows *without* the JP
 LE> software product, you aren't likely to get any better results *with*
 LE> the JP Software product.

Sounds like I'll have to keep an older OS around in order to run the 
programs I like...

     Thanks,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                                   

 -=> Quoting BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON <=-

 -=>> Quoting BOB KLAHN to ALL <=-
 
 BK>> Have you ever noticed the scanners used in super markets to
 BK>> keep inventory? We use the same scanners to keep our storeroom
 BK>> inventory. I was using one today to put some parts back in
 BK>> inventory, when I switched scanner, the scanner I picked up had
 BK>> lost it's configuration. It reconfigured itself through the
 BK>> wireless network we use.
 
 BK>> The interesting thing was, as it booted up before
 BK>> configuration, the LCD showed it booting up in Dr Dos. It
 BK>> displayed Digital Research also. I didn't catch the version
 BK>> number. Once it configured it would not display the boot up
 BK>> sequence again, but I am very tempted to take one apart to find
 BK>> out what they are running in there that is booting up with DR
 BK>> Dos.
 
 LE> DR-DOS has a ROMable version. Which is used by a lot of 
 LE> gear that needs to boot from a ROM.

 BK> I'm wondering what the CPU is.

Something 80x86 compatible, obviously. :-)


--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                                            

...

 LE>> DR-DOS has a ROMable version. Which is used by a lot of
 LE>> gear that needs to boot from a ROM.

 BK>> I'm wondering what the CPU is.

 LE> Something 80x86 compatible, obviously. :-)

 I was thinking about that. Digital Research started with CPM,
 which was 8080/Z80. The Z-80 was by Zilog. Last I heard Zilog
 was making dedicated controller chips.

 Put it all together and it really means something.

 I have no idea what, but it must mean something.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... IDIDN'TDOITNOBODYSAWMEDOITYOUCAN'TPROVEANYTHING!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                        

 -=> Quoting BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON <=-

 LE>> DR-DOS has a ROMable version. Which is used by a lot of
 LE>> gear that needs to boot from a ROM.
 
 BK>> I'm wondering what the CPU is.
 
 LE> Something 80x86 compatible, obviously. :-)

 BK> I was thinking about that. Digital Research started with CPM,
 BK> which was 8080/Z80. The Z-80 was by Zilog. Last I heard Zilog
 BK> was making dedicated controller chips.

But CP/M has been esentially "dead" (ie no new versions, etc) for a
*long* time.

I understand that there is (or was) a 25 MHz Z-80 chip at one point.
Maybe even as high as 50.

Some of us TRS-80 folks were thinking about the possibility of
designing and building a "Model 5" using one of those. 
--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
 

 -=>> Quoting BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON <=-

 LE>>> DR-DOS has a ROMable version. Which is used by a lot of
 LE>>> gear that needs to boot from a ROM.
 LE>
 BK>>> I'm wondering what the CPU is.
 LE>
 LE>> Something 80x86 compatible, obviously. :-)

 BK>> I was thinking about that. Digital Research started with CPM,
 BK>> which was 8080/Z80. The Z-80 was by Zilog. Last I heard Zilog
 BK>> was making dedicated controller chips.

 LE> But CP/M has been esentially "dead" (ie no new versions,
 LE> etc) for a *long* time.

 True, but I wonder if they didn't, somewhere along the line, use
 their Z-80 expertise to adapt Dr. Dos.

 LE> I understand that there is (or was) a 25 MHz Z-80 chip at
 LE> one point. Maybe even as high as 50.

 I don't know how fast the Z280 was, Ok, I looked it up. The z280
 is no longer made. However, the z380 is available. It runs 18mhz
 top speed. The evaluation kit is only $575.

 They also have flash memory Z80 derivitives that run up to
 50MHZ, but I didn't look up their prices.

 It could be that last is the one in the scanners.
 LE> Some of us TRS-80 folks were thinking about the possibility 
 LE> of designing and building a "Model 5" using one of those. 
 LE> --- FMailX 1.60
 LE>  * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Moby Disk:  "Call me E-mail . . ."
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                           

Just got a tour of an All Tell call center, the tech side. An old
ham buddy of mine works there. He showed me some of the old
analog call racks. Some of the cards in there have Z-80s on them.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Contraceptives: to be used on all conceivable occasions.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                                   

Hello, Leonard;

15 Jun 03 23:39, Leonard Erickson wrote to Robert Bull:

 RB>> Sounds like I'll have to keep an older OS around in order to run
 RB>> the programs I like...

 LE> You can always *try* them. But XP is essentially *designed* to not run
 LE> old DOS apps. And the version after XP is going to be even worse. MS's
 LE> "Palladium" will give them the ability to deny users access to any
 LE> file or programs at will. All in the name of "improved security".

No wonder Microsoft are so cordially hated.  It's not in fact that I'm 
indissolubly wedded to DOS, as that I need a command line, and DOS has long 
been the command line I'm familiar with and the one that works with 
Windows.  All those little DOS apps strung together in batch files mean I 
can make mini-apps of my own without real programming, and not many DOS apps 
have been re-written for Win 32-bit command lines.  <sigh>

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                  

Hello, BOB;

17 Jun 03 21:54, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 BK>  One video program I really really like won't run at all under
 BK>  XP. And my old scanner software won't run under anything later
 BK>  than Win 3.1.

No driver updates?

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                       

 -=> Quoting Robert Bull to Leonard Erickson <=-

 RB> Hello, Leonard;

 RB> 15 Jun 03 23:39, Leonard Erickson wrote to Robert Bull:
 
 RB>> Sounds like I'll have to keep an older OS around in order to run
 RB>> the programs I like...
 
 LE> You can always *try* them. But XP is essentially *designed* to not run
 LE> old DOS apps. And the version after XP is going to be even worse. MS's
 LE> "Palladium" will give them the ability to deny users access to any
 LE> file or programs at will. All in the name of "improved security".

 RB> No wonder Microsoft are so cordially hated.  It's not in fact that I'm
 RB> indissolubly wedded to DOS, as that I need a command line, and DOS has
 RB> long  been the command line I'm familiar with and the one that works
 RB> with  Windows.  All those little DOS apps strung together in batch
 RB> files mean I  can make mini-apps of my own without real programming,
 RB> and not many DOS apps  have been re-written for Win 32-bit command
 RB> lines.  <sigh> 

Well, part of the "security" stuff is MS seeing ways to pull the same
sort of tricks that the record and movie infdustries have been pulling
with things like DMCA making it illegal to reverse engineer stuff.

BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command from JP
Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)

I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.

Me, I've got an OS/2 box I do most of my "DOS" stuff on, a DR-DOS box
that's running the node, a couple of Windows boxes for things that
aren't easily down on the others, and a Netware server that ties the
mess together.

--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                 

 RB> Hello, BOB;

 RB> 17 Jun 03 21:54, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 BK>>  One video program I really really like won't run at all under
 BK>>  XP. And my old scanner software won't run under anything later
 BK>>  than Win 3.1.

 RB> No driver updates?

 RB>      Regards,

 NO updates for the scanner. They are out of business.

 And there is a replacement for the program, for $50.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... That which does not kill me probably will eventually.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                 

...

 RB> No wonder Microsoft are so cordially hated.  It's not in
 RB> fact that I'm indissolubly wedded to DOS, as that I need a
 RB> command line, and DOS has long been the command line I'm
 RB> familiar with and the one that works with Windows.  All
 RB> those little DOS apps strung together in batch files mean I
 RB> can make mini-apps of my own without real programming, and
 RB> not many DOS apps have been re-written for Win 32-bit
 RB> command lines.  <sigh>

 Most of my dos stuff works ok with 98 or XP. It's my 98 stuff
 that doesn't work with XP.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                                             

...

 LE> BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command
 LE> from JP Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)

 LE> I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.

 I looked it up, and downloaded just about everything they give
 away. However, it does seem a bit expensive. $69 for a command
 line added to an OS you can buy for $100.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... "Give me the splendid silent sun with all his beams full-dazzling."
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                 

  Re: Win9x and Arachne ?
  By: Robert Bull to Leonard Erickson on Sun Jul 13 2003 08:30 pm

 > Windows.  All those little DOS apps strung together in batch files mean I
 > can make mini-apps of my own without real programming, and not many DOS apps
 > have been re-written for Win 32-bit command lines.  <sigh>
 
Most likely you can't find the DOS app.s written in 32-bits because they were
recast in either REXX or PERL to make them more portable.  PERL 4.x patch level
19 can run on my IBM PCjr.  B-Rexx with Paradox Dbase extensions runs on my DOS
PC as well.  Even better, their batches can be moved from system to system,
DOS->WINDOWS->Mainframe and back again.  In a networked environment with a
server attached to "web space", a batch that is machine portable is of greater
use.  There is even a version of Regina REXX for the DOS PC, although B-REXX is
a bit more optimized for your basic DOS PC.

--- SBBSecho 2.00-Win32
 * Origin: Tuneman BBS -- Manville, RI Tunemanbbs.mine.nu (1:323/981)
                       

  Re: Win9x and Arachne ?
  By: BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON on Wed Jul 16 2003 11:25 am

 > ...
 > 
 >  LE> BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command
 >  LE> from JP Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)
 > 
 >  LE> I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.
 > 
 >  I looked it up, and downloaded just about everything they give
 >  away. However, it does seem a bit expensive. $69 for a command
 >  line added to an OS you can buy for $100.
 > 
 > BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn
 > 
 > ... "Give me the splendid silent sun with all his beams full-dazzling."
 
Maybe...  but those JPSoft command shells do give you everything that you need:
a history list, testible hardware variables, aliases, a fast and abstract
parser with a complexity the equal of the Berkeley shells.  If I had to use a
PC for any commercial task rather than just noodling around, then a JPSoft 
command shell would be one of my early purchases.  (I wouldn't have the time to
play "juggling utilities" like I do....)
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Win32
 * Origin: Tuneman BBS -- Manville, RI Tunemanbbs.mine.nu (1:323/981)
              

 -=> Quoting BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON <=-

 BK> ...
 
 LE> BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command
 LE> from JP Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)
 
 LE> I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.

 BK> I looked it up, and downloaded just about everything they give
 BK> away. However, it does seem a bit expensive. $69 for a command
 BK> line added to an OS you can buy for $100.

Trust me, it's a *big* improvemy. It has extensive scripting
capabilities and lots of useful functions for use in them


--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                                           

 -=>> Quoting BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON <=-

 BK>> ...
 LE>
 LE>> BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command
 LE>> from JP Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)
 LE>
 LE>> I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.

 BK>> I looked it up, and downloaded just about everything they give
 BK>> away. However, it does seem a bit expensive. $69 for a command
 BK>> line added to an OS you can buy for $100.

 LE> Trust me, it's a *big* improvemy. It has extensive scripting
 LE> capabilities and lots of useful functions for use in them

 I have the trial version. Problem is, it has a fairly short
 trial period, and the learning curve may eat that up. I'll look
 into it.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... When the land cooled, there were many taglines..
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.4P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                                                         

Hi Bob:

It was Wednesday July 16 2003. "Win9x and Arachne ?," murmured you to LEONARD.

 LE>> BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command
 LE>> from JP Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)

 LE>> I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.

 BK>  I looked it up, and downloaded just about everything they give
 BK>  away. However, it does seem a bit expensive. $69 for a command
 BK>  line added to an OS you can buy for $100.

I've never used anything of theirs other than 4DOS, which I was told I couldn't 
afford to be without some years back, and trust me, that was /good/ advice.

The stuff you can do at or with the command line environment with JPSoft's 
replacement command processor (whichever one you use) knocks the alternatives 
into a cocked hat.

You know the facility you get with cmd.exe (or with doskey loaded on top of 
command.com) to use the cursor keys to recall previous commands typed? How 
about the ability to type the first couple of characters of a command you typed 
a while back, hit the up arrow and have it appear straight away? Or, if that's 
not it, the next match on another up arrow? Or a browseable command history in 
a window? Colour-coded - by extension - directory listings? The ability to edit 
an environment variable (including the path) instead of having to retype the 
thing? The ability to load a collection of environment variables from a file, 
with a single set command? The ability to write batchfiles that work like 
programs - if/then/else stuff and so forth?

Sure, if you don't use a command line much, you can live without it. If you 
spend any time there, you'll wonder how you did without it for so long...

Bests,

Tim

--- GoldED 3.0.1-os1 at Oblivion
 * Origin: Points and feeds from Oblivion BBS - 01424-732915 (2:25/108)
                                                                                                                       

Hello, Leonard;

15 Jul 03 05:26, Leonard Erickson wrote to Robert Bull:

 LE> Well, part of the "security" stuff is MS seeing ways to pull the same
 LE> sort of tricks that the record and movie infdustries have been pulling
 LE> with things like DMCA making it illegal to reverse engineer stuff.

Yes.  Business run riot, in a war against the people  :-/

 LE> BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command from JP
 LE> Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)

Remember I came in wanting to be sure I could get Procomm Plus for DOS to 
work under XP, and you've basically told me I'd be very lucky  ;-)  But if 
I am forced to move to XP at work, as seems inevitable, I'll try to get 
Take Command on board for the DOS command-line stuff that isn't going to 
upset Windows.

 LE> Me, I've got an OS/2 box I do most of my "DOS" stuff on, a DR-DOS box
 LE> that's running the node, a couple of Windows boxes for things that

There I'm surprised, because my current boss and former boss were both mad 
keen on OS/2 for running their nodes.  Both were/are major mail movers, so 
they really need a heavy-duty OS.

 LE> aren't easily down on the others, and a Netware server that ties the
 LE> mess together.

I don't have the space for more than a laptop ATM but it's sort of occurred 
to me that several computers running different OSs might be the best way to 
get things done.  I hadn't thought of tying a home system together with a 
network, though, and that might be useful.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                   

Hello, BOB;

15 Jul 03 12:30, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 BK>  Most of my dos stuff works ok with 98 or XP. It's my 98 stuff
 BK>  that doesn't work with XP.

Glad to hear that "most" of the DOS stuff works in XP; maybe I needn't 
worry quite so much.  98 stuff not working is bad news, though.  Who's got 
the money to "upgrade" every five minutes, even if an upgrade is available?

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                  

Hello, Winston;

17 Jul 03 13:29, Winston Smith wrote to Robert Bull:

 >> not many DOS apps have been re-written for Win 32-bit command
 >> lines.  <sigh>

 WS> Most likely you can't find the DOS app.s written in 32-bits because
 WS> they were recast in either REXX or PERL to make them more portable.

Hardly, because I'm a long-time participant in the BATPOWER echo, and I 
doubt if many of their large collection of utilities that I use so much 
have been ported to anything.  You raise an interesting point, though.  I 
use AWK a great deal, but never moved on to the near-impenetrable PERL.  
But REXX, which AIUI is something like a wondrous combination of extended 
batch language on steroids plus 4DOS and AWK all in one, might be a good 
way to go.

 WS> PERL 4.x patch level 19 can run on my IBM PCjr.  B-Rexx with Paradox

The way I heard it, PERL doesn't make much sense on single-tasking systems, 
which is partly why I never really looked at it.

 WS> Dbase extensions runs on my DOS PC as well.  Even better, their
 WS> batches can be moved from system to system,

Now =that= is most worth having!  :-)

 WS> greater use.  There is even a version of Regina REXX for the DOS PC,
 WS> although B-REXX is a bit more optimized for your basic DOS PC.

I have a copy of BREXX20.ZIP here somewhere and I have a copy of Regina 
REXX somewhere at work, neither really looked at.  My real problems are at 
work, where I presently have Win95 and Win98, but will probably be forced 
onto XP some time in the next few months.  That seems to mean I should look 
for a newer version of Regina REXX, and check out the O'Reilly Web site for 
a book.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                      

...

 TP> I've never used anything of theirs other than 4DOS, which I
 TP> was told I couldn't afford to be without some years back,
 TP> and trust me, that was /good/ advice.

 TP> The stuff you can do at or with the command line
 TP> environment with JPSoft's replacement command processor
 TP> (whichever one you use) knocks the alternatives into a
 TP> cocked hat.
...

 TP> with a single set command? The ability to write batchfiles
 TP> that work like programs - if/then/else stuff and so forth?

 TP> Sure, if you don't use a command line much, you can live
 TP> without it. If you spend any time there, you'll wonder how
 TP> you did without it for so long...

 Ok, I'll give it a try. I'm a command line believer myself. I
 keep telling my co-workers to learn to use the keyboard instead
 of the mouse, cause I'm a true believer.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... There's no such thing as a user friendly program with a 600 page manual.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.4P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                             

 RB> Hello, BOB;

 RB> 15 Jul 03 12:30, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 BK>>  Most of my dos stuff works ok with 98 or XP. It's my 98 stuff
 BK>>  that doesn't work with XP.

 RB> Glad to hear that "most" of the DOS stuff works in XP;
 RB> maybe I needn't worry quite so much.  98 stuff not working
 RB> is bad news, though.  Who's got the money to "upgrade"
 RB> every five minutes, even if an upgrade is available?

 My thinking exactly.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... *This* is my other computer...my main computer is a Model 1 TRS-80.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.4P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                               

...

 RB> I have a copy of BREXX20.ZIP here somewhere and I have a
 RB> copy of Regina REXX somewhere at work, neither really
 RB> looked at.  My real problems are at work, where I presently
 RB> have Win95 and Win98, but will probably be forced onto XP
 RB> some time in the next few months.  That seems to mean I
 RB> should look for a newer version of Regina REXX, and check
 RB> out the O'Reilly Web site for a book.

 My real problem is not wanting to go round the learning curve
 again.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Type Alt-X for an intelligence test when ready.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.4P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                

Robert Bull wrote in a message to Leonard Erickson:

<...>

 LE> Me, I've got an OS/2 box I do most of my "DOS" stuff on, a DR-DOS box
 LE> that's running the node, a couple of Windows boxes for things that

 RB> There I'm surprised, because my current boss and former boss were
 RB> both mad keen on OS/2 for running their nodes.  Both were/are 
 RB> major mail movers, so they really need a heavy-duty OS.

I have a couple of copies of OS/2 here,  and in fact have it installed on a 
couple of machines,  though I don't use it.  I was *real* enthusiastic about it 
a few years back,  but I've lost a lot of that enthusiasm as time has gone by.  
Too much stuff in there that's specific to OS/2,  too much in there that I 
don't understand,  too much orientation on IBM's part to selling it to the 
business market that will pay for support (which is where they make their money 
when it comes to OS/2 these days),  and not enough support for a variety of 
hardware.

 LE> aren't easily down on the others, and a Netware server that ties the
 LE> mess together.

 RB> I don't have the space for more than a laptop ATM but it's sort of
 RB> occurred to me that several computers running different OSs might 
 RB> be the best way to get things done. 

I rather like that approach.  I'm typing this on a box that's running dos/dv, 
and there are two other boxes here that run linux,  one I just installed today. 
 One other for games and such runs w98,  another runs OS/2 but it's been *ages* 
since I turned that one on.  And there are more,  will be more,  as I have a 
16-port hub and only 5-6 of those allocated so far.  :-)

 RB> I hadn't thought of tying a home system together with a network, 
 RB> though, and that might be useful.

Oh,  definitely.  To back up the bbs I used to use a tape drive.  Since tapes 
don't hold all that much the process was time-consuming,  and it was noisy,  
and I had to take the system down to do it.  Now I just ftp to the server and 
make copies of everything over there.  It's highly unlikely that I'll see 
failure in both machines at the same time...

It's handy for other things,  too.  I'm not real keen on giving w98 much in the 
way of resources.  So I have it set up so that stuff can be stored on the 
server.  No more worries about running out of HD space.

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
                                                                    

 -=> Quoting BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON <=-

 -=>> Quoting BOB KLAHN to LEONARD ERICKSON <=-
 
 BK>> ...
 LE>
 LE>> BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command
 LE>> from JP Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)
 LE>
 LE>> I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.
 
 BK>> I looked it up, and downloaded just about everything they give
 BK>> away. However, it does seem a bit expensive. $69 for a command
 BK>> line added to an OS you can buy for $100.
 
 LE> Trust me, it's a *big* improvemy. It has extensive scripting
 LE> capabilities and lots of useful functions for use in them

 BK> I have the trial version. Problem is, it has a fairly short
 BK> trial period, and the learning curve may eat that up. I'll look
 BK> into it.

Well, after the trial period, I think it still works, it just exits
after some number of commands or some such. Also, older versions can be
found that don't nag as bad. 

I've been using 4dos since version 2.x..


--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
      

 -=> Quoting Robert Bull to Leonard Erickson <=-

 LE> Me, I've got an OS/2 box I do most of my "DOS" stuff on, a DR-DOS box
 LE> that's running the node, a couple of Windows boxes for things that

 RB> There I'm surprised, because my current boss and former boss were both
 RB> mad  keen on OS/2 for running their nodes.  Both were/are major mail
 RB> movers, so  they really need a heavy-duty OS.

Well, I'd be doing that too, except that there's a conflict with
Netware (I think) and the motherboard that keeps the comm ports from
being functional. :-(
 
 LE> aren't easily down on the others, and a Netware server that ties the
 LE> mess together.

 RB> I don't have the space for more than a laptop ATM but it's sort of
 RB> occurred  to me that several computers running different OSs might be
 RB> the best way to  get things done.  I hadn't thought of tying a home
 RB> system together with a  network, though, and that might be useful.

Well, one nice thing is that if I crash a Windows box, it doesn't
affect the mailer. 

I went with Netware because I had a copy available, and I'd worked with
it before. 


--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                                                                                                

LE>BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command from JP
LE>Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)

LE>I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.

Does it work with XP?

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                      

RB> Sounds like I'll have to keep an older OS around in order to run
RB> the programs I like...

Well, there is always DR-DOS (currently 7.03, but rumored to have a
newer version in the works), and FreeDOS (still in beta, see
http://www.freedos.org). There are a few other "alternate DOSes," too.

I tried DR-DOS, and it worked fine, but was not compatable with
DesqView, which I needed.  FreeDOS, last I tried it, would not install
properly, but that was over a year ago, and on an XT.  I have meant to
try PTS-DOS, but have not yet.  And I have never tried IBM's PC-DOS
(which is available only for a fee).

I have MS-DOS 6.22 running on a 386-40, and a P-120, and have DR-DOS
7.03 (or maybe 7.02) running on an XT.

Mike
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * My reality check just bounced.


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                               

Hello, Roy;

21 Jul 03 04:06, Roy J. Tellason wrote to Robert Bull:

 RT> I have a couple of copies of OS/2 here,  and in fact have it installed
 RT> on a couple of machines,  though I don't use it.  I was *real*
 RT> enthusiastic about it a few years back,  but I've lost a lot of that
 RT> enthusiasm as time has gone by.  Too much stuff in there that's
 RT> specific to OS/2,  too much in there that I don't understand,  too
 RT> much orientation on IBM's part to selling it to the business market
 RT> that will pay for support (which is where they make their money when
 RT> it comes to OS/2 these days),  and not enough support for a variety of
 RT> hardware.

Hm, looks like IBM have turned into Microsoft-roaders, but I suppose some 
of your criticisms could be levelled at =any= OS.  My boss contends that 
IBM don't plug OS/2 any more because it's so stable; they make more money 
supporting M$ OSs that aren't.

 RT> installed today.  One other for games and such runs w98,  another runs
 RT> OS/2 but it's been *ages* since I turned that one on.  And there are
 RT> more,  will be more,  as I have a 16-port hub and only 5-6 of those
 RT> allocated so far.  :-)

I wish I had that sort of space to devote to a hobby  :-)

 RT> just ftp to the server and make copies of everything over there.  It's
 RT> highly unlikely that I'll see failure in both machines at the same

My boss recently had failures on two different HDs one after the other.  
Fortunately he had back-ups.  You might want to do at least a weekly tape 
back-up still.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
            

Hello, Leonard;

22 Jul 03 03:54, Leonard Erickson wrote to Robert Bull:

 LE> Well, I'd be doing that too, except that there's a conflict with
 LE> Netware (I think) and the motherboard that keeps the comm ports from
 LE> being functional. :-(

That's not good  :-(

 LE> Well, one nice thing is that if I crash a Windows box, it doesn't
 LE> affect the mailer.

Which =is= good  :-)  Of course, Windows can crash itself without you're 
really trying  :-(

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                              

Hello, Mike;

26 Jul 03 17:08, Mike Powell wrote to Robert Bull:

 MP> Well, there is always DR-DOS (currently 7.03, but rumored to have a
 MP> newer version in the works), and FreeDOS (still in beta, see
 MP> http://www.freedos.org). There are a few other "alternate DOSes," too.

 MP> FreeDOS, last I tried it, would not install
 MP> properly, but that was over a year ago, and on an XT.  I have meant to

I knew about both, but I've never tried either.  I was under the impression 
that FreeDOS wasn't really ready for prime time.  It should work on an XT, 
though, that's where DOS came in.

 MP> I tried DR-DOS, and it worked fine, but was not compatable with
 MP> DesqView, which I needed.

That could be why I never tried it, DV is just too useful  :-)  Isn't there 
a work-around or fix for the incompatibility?

 MP> I have MS-DOS 6.22 running on a 386-40, and a P-120, and have DR-DOS
 MP> 7.03 (or maybe 7.02) running on an XT.

Charles Dye made some of his utilities, LOCATE, TOUCH, ATTRIB, and so on, 
compatible with DR-DOS style @lists.  He made other versions compatible 
with FreeDOS.

Beware Geeks Bearing Gifts  http://www.highfiber.com/~raster/freeware.htm
   Charles Dye's (Raster's) freeware programs, LOCATE, ATTRIB, CAL, etc

"Geeks bearing gifts," indeed.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                      

Mike Powell wrote in a message to Robert Bull:

RB> Sounds like I'll have to keep an older OS around in order to run
RB> the programs I like...

MP> Well, there is always DR-DOS (currently 7.03, but rumored to have a
MP> newer version in the works), and FreeDOS (still in beta, see
MP> http://www.freedos.org). There are a few other "alternate DOSes,"
MP> too. 

MP> I tried DR-DOS, and it worked fine, but was not compatable with
MP> DesqView, which I needed. 

I was of the impression that DRDOS would work with DV,  which I use here,  
though I couldn't tell you details of how to do that.  Maybe the files 
DRDOS6.ZIP or NOVELL7.ZIP would shed some light on the subject.  (Available 
here if you want them.)

MP> FreeDOS, last I tried it, would not install properly, but that was 
MP> over a year ago, and on an XT.  I have meant to try PTS-DOS, but 
MP> have not yet.  And I have never tried IBM's PC-DOS (which is 
MP> available only for a fee).

I've seen copies of that going for *real* cheap at computer shows, hamfests,  
etc.

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
                                                           

Robert Bull wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

 RB> Hello, Roy;

 RB> 21 Jul 03 04:06, Roy J. Tellason wrote to Robert Bull:

 RT> I have a couple of copies of OS/2 here,  and in fact have it installed
 RT> on a couple of machines,  though I don't use it.  I was *real*
 RT> enthusiastic about it a few years back,  but I've lost a lot of that
 RT> enthusiasm as time has gone by.  Too much stuff in there that's
 RT> specific to OS/2,  too much in there that I don't understand,  too
 RT> much orientation on IBM's part to selling it to the business market
 RT> that will pay for support (which is where they make their money when
 RT> it comes to OS/2 these days),  and not enough support for a variety of
 RT> hardware.

 RB> Hm, looks like IBM have turned into Microsoft-roaders, but I
 RB> suppose some of your criticisms could be levelled at =any= OS.  My
 RB> boss contends that IBM don't plug OS/2 any more because it's so
 RB> stable; they make more money  supporting M$ OSs that aren't.

Your boss probably has a point there...

 RT> installed today.  One other for games and such runs w98,  another runs
 RT> OS/2 but it's been *ages* since I turned that one on.  And there are
 RT> more,  will be more,  as I have a 16-port hub and only 5-6 of those
 RT> allocated so far.  :-)

 RB> I wish I had that sort of space to devote to a hobby  :-)

I don't.  Got a big L-shaped desk here,  and I had to build a "second level" 
for it to stick the machines on.

 RT> just ftp to the server and make copies of everything over there.  It's
 RT> highly unlikely that I'll see failure in both machines at the same

 RB> My boss recently had failures on two different HDs one after the
 RB> other.  Fortunately he had back-ups.  You might want to do at
 RB> least a weekly tape back-up still.

I've been planning to implement a backup strategy here but it's a matter of 
sitting down and taking the time to do it,  and I keep getting busy with other 
things.

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
                            

 -=> Quoting Mike Powell to Leonard Erickson <=-

 LE>BTW, if you want a command line, check out Take Command from JP
 LE>Software. Gives Windows a command line. :-)
 
 LE>I think http://www.jpsoft.com is the URL.

 MP> Does it work with XP?

Should, it works with NT.

I don't run XP. Check out the web sit for info.

--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                

Hello, Mike;

02 Aug 03 22:15, Mike Powell wrote to Robert Bull:

 MP> Well, I think maybe part of it not being ready for prime time was the
 MP> reason that it'd not work on my XT.  It had bugs, and they were such
 MP> that some functions didn't work too good.

At least they're trying, I suppose...  how often do bug fixes or new 
versions come out?

 MP> Well, I don't think the incompatability was with DV proper, but
 MP> instead with my BBS software, running under DV, running under DR-DOS.
 MP> If I remember right, it was a memory issue.

That's why I run this very old version of GoldED.  It's the last and 
biggest one I could reliably shoehorn into this DOS/NDOS/QEMM/DV system.

 RB>> Charles Dye made some of his utilities, LOCATE, TOUCH, ATTRIB, and

 MP> Thanks for that link.  I will check it out!

You're welcome.  He makes good utilities!

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                              

Hello, Dave;

02 Aug 03 10:35, Dave Liquorice wrote to Robert Bull:

 DL> If only that where true. IBM don't plug OS/2 because it is getting
 DL> close to its "end of life" date. I think WARP4 passes it (has past?)
 DL> it this year, WARP3 was last year or the year before.

What do you mean by "end of life," a point beyond which IBM have said they 
will no longer support it?  What of eComStation, o whatever it's called?

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                               

Hello, Roy;

07 Aug 03 12:06, Roy J. Tellason wrote to Robert Bull:

 RT> It does,  but not what I end up with,  which is all different.  And

If you get them all at different times from different sources, bound to 
happen  :-(

 RT> Me?  A major source of files?  When did that happen?  :-)

When you started collecting rather a lot?  :-)

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                   

Robert Bull wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

 RT> Me?  A major source of files?  When did that happen?  :-)

 RB> When you started collecting rather a lot?  :-)

I just looked and there's only 14,217 in the files list at the present time.  
Of course,  there are a few things that have been added since I ran that last,  
but not that many...

I guess I do collect a bunch of them.  :-)

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
                                                              

>Darned if I know why a setup that'd been working when I went away wasn't
>working when I came back.  It's working again now,  though.

Yes, I have had similar problems before.  One involved SQUISH.  I am now
having another with a small program that scans a message base and removes
any CTRL-Z characters it finds.  Sometimes it just freezes right up.

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * ....we came in?


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                           

...

 RB> 07 Aug 03 12:06, Roy J. Tellason wrote to Robert Bull:

 RT>> It does,  but not what I end up with,  which is all different.  And

 RB> If you get them all at different times from different
 RB> sources, bound to happen  :-(

 RT>> Me?  A major source of files?  When did that happen?  :-)

 RB> When you started collecting rather a lot?  :-)

 things I didn't know until recently:

 SCO owns the rights to Unix, and sued IBM for putting Unix code
 into Linux.

 IBM is countersuing for violations of the Open source license.

 Seems SCO used to be Caldera, who distributed their own version
 of Linux.

 So, IBM is in the running to be the white knight who saves the
 alternative operating system...whoda thunk?

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Today is the last day of your life - so far.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                            

  Re: Win9x and Arachne ?
  By: BOB KLAHN to ROBERT BULL on Tue Aug 12 2003 09:38 pm

 >  Seems SCO used to be Caldera, who distributed their own version
 >  of Linux.
 
     SCO existed long before Caldera.  SCO helped on the Tandy XENIX project. 
Gates swallowed SCO for just such an eventuality.  AT&T and Berkeley predate
them, though....  If Gates has to leverage SCO, it means that UNIX is winning
and Gates wants in!  (Hmm...  I wonder if I have any CP/M and MP/M disks still 
around....)
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Win32
 * Origin: Tuneman BBS -- Manville, RI Tunemanbbs.mine.nu (1:323/981)
                                                  

##
# What do you mean by "end of life," a point beyond which IBM have said they
# will no longer support it?
##[RB=>DL]
 
Yes.
 
##
# What of eComStation, o whatever it's called?
##[RB=>DL]
 
I *think* eComStation is produced by a third party who bought the rights
to the Warp4 code or something like that. IBM might still have a finger
in the pie but they are not the major developers.
 
##MMR 2.61#.  !link RB  8-10-03 19:44
 

--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                                                         

 DL> If only that where true. IBM don't plug OS/2 because it is
 DL> getting close to its "end of life" date. I think WARP4
 DL> passes it (has past?) it this year, WARP3 was last year or
 DL> the year before.

actually, IBM hasn't been pushing OS/2 for several reasons... one of the first 
being the high cost of enduser suppport... IBM has always made their money in 
corporate support and endusers aren't going to pay like that... another reason 
was m$'s threats to disallow IBM to market windows on IBM machines... those two 
are the major ones...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                     

 DL>> If only that where true. IBM don't plug OS/2 because it is getting
 DL>> close to its "end of life" date. I think WARP4 passes it (has past?)
 DL>> it this year, WARP3 was last year or the year before.

 RB> What do you mean by "end of life," a point beyond which IBM
 RB> have said they will no longer support it?

yes...

 RB> What of eComStation, o whatever it's called?

that's handles by another organization that has purchased rights to OS/2 and 
renamed it due to contract restrictions...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                                        

mark lewis wrote in a message to Dave Liquorice:

 DL> If only that where true. IBM don't plug OS/2 because it is
 DL> getting close to its "end of life" date. I think WARP4
 DL> passes it (has past?) it this year, WARP3 was last year or
 DL> the year before.

 ml> actually, IBM hasn't been pushing OS/2 for several reasons... one
 ml> of the first being the high cost of enduser suppport... IBM has
 ml> always made their money in corporate support and endusers aren't
 ml> going to pay like that... 

I remember when Warp was being pushed in tv ads,  and I said back then that 
they really didn't know what they were getting into.  They're just really not 
geared up for that sort of thing...

It's no surprise to me that they pulled back.

 ml> another reason was m$'s threats to disallow IBM to market windows 
 ml> on IBM machines... those two are the major ones...

Yeah,  that too.  They did have an "agreement" at one point in time,  but I 
don't think either party really knew what the other one was like and what they 
were getting into.

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
                                               

Hi Robert:

It was Sunday August 10 2003. "Win9x and Arachne ?," murmured you to Mike.

 RB> That's why I run this very old version of GoldED.  It's the last and
 RB> biggest one I could reliably shoehorn into this DOS/NDOS/QEMM/DV system.

 RB> -+- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+

The version I use (see tearline) works well too, and I run a similar system 
(4DOS not NDOS, though, not that there's much difference).

Bests,

Tim

--- GoldED 3.0.1-os1 at Oblivion
 * Origin: Points and feeds from Oblivion BBS - 01424-732915 (2:25/108)
                                                                                                                   

...

 DL>> If only that where true. IBM don't plug OS/2 because it is getting close
 DL>> to its "end of life" date. I think WARP4 passes it (has past?) it this
 DL>> year, WARP3 was last year or the year before.

 TP> I think Warp 4 support was withdrawn a while back. I'm sure
 TP> I remember reading an obituary notice somewhere.

 Many years ago I worked as a typwriter repair trainee for Royal
 Typwriter co.

 They had a sign on the wall that said,"We have no obligation to
 sell one more typwriter. However, we are morally obligated to
 maintain every typwriter we have ever sold."

 I like that philosophy.

 Now, if IBM is going to abandon OS2, the least they can do is
 make it public domain, so the public can support it.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... "His death is irrelevant, Jim." - McCoy of Borg
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                               

 WS>   Re: Win9x and Arachne ?
 WS>   By: BOB KLAHN to ROBERT BULL on Tue Aug 12 2003 09:38 pm

 >>  Seems SCO used to be Caldera, who distributed their own version
 >>  of Linux.
 WS>
 WS>      SCO existed long before Caldera.  SCO helped on the
 WS>      Tandy XENIX project. Gates swallowed SCO for just such
 WS>      an eventuality.  AT&T and Berkeley predate them,
 WS>      though....  If Gates has to leverage SCO, it means
 WS>      that UNIX is winning and Gates wants in!  (Hmm...  I
 WS>      wonder if I have any CP/M and MP/M disks still
 WS>      around....) --- SBBSecho 2.00-Win32 * Origin: Tuneman
 WS>      BBS -- Manville, RI Tunemanbbs.mine.nu (1:323/981)

 My info came from the Financial Times. I wonder if SCO got hold
 of Caldera. Hmmm...interesting.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Chocolate chip cookies are a waist of time, but never a waste of time.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
             

Hello Winston!

13 Aug 03 09:25, Winston Smith wrote to BOB KLAHN:

 WS>      SCO existed long before Caldera.  SCO helped on the Tandy XENIX
 WS> project. Gates swallowed SCO for just such an eventuality.  AT&T and
 WS> Berkeley predate them, though....  If Gates has to leverage SCO, it
 WS> means that UNIX is winning and Gates wants in!  (Hmm...  I wonder if I
 WS> have any CP/M and MP/M disks still around....)

The backstory is a little richer than that.

~1980:  Microsoft commissioned some programmers to port BSD to Intel 8086 CPUs 
at the same time that they were developing DOS, to facilitate internal software 
development at Microsoft.  Those programmers incorporated as SCO, with 
Microsoft as their only customer.  The other flavors of Xenix (including IBM, 
Tandy, and eventually SCO brands) were OEM-licensed from Microsoft, who created 
and owned the Xenix trademark.  This arrangement existed through the 286 and 
386 versions, while MS's own programming resources worked at DOS, OS/2, and 
eventually Windows.

1991: Novell buys Digital Research to acquire DR-DOS, in the hopes of keeping 
DOS alive longer than MS claims it wants it to be.  Novell Netware rules among 
DOS clients and MS rules among Win clients (since they are OS-bundled).

1993: Novell buys Unix from AT&T.

1994: Caldera founded by Novell CEO Ray Noorda, who was run out on a rail due 
primarily to the loss of market-share for Netware and criticism over the timing 
of the Unix acquisition and the protracted payback timeline.

1995:  SCO buys Xenix from Microsoft.  SCO buys Unix from Novell.

1996:  Caldera buys "DR-DOS" from Novell.


Gates never needed to swallow SCO.  He was their sole reason for existence for 
the first 15 years of their lives and SCO only became autonomous when Bill 
decided he was through with them and allowed them to go and take Xenix with 
them.  He was already in...until =he= decided to get out.  He was "in" for 
twice as long as he's been "out". :)

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                                 

Hello Winston!

13 Aug 03 09:25, Winston Smith wrote to BOB KLAHN:

Sorry to rebarf, but that scanned out before I was done editing...

 WS>      SCO existed long before Caldera.  SCO helped on the Tandy XENIX
 WS> project. Gates swallowed SCO for just such an eventuality.  AT&T and
 WS> Berkeley predate them, though....  If Gates has to leverage SCO, it
 WS> means that UNIX is winning and Gates wants in!  (Hmm...  I wonder if I
 WS> have any CP/M and MP/M disks still around....)

The backstory is a little richer than that.

~1980:  Microsoft commissioned some programmers to port BSD to Intel 8086 CPUs 
at the same time that they were developing DOS, to facilitate internal software 
development at Microsoft.  Those programmers incorporated as SCO, with 
Microsoft as their only customer.  The other flavors of Xenix (including IBM, 
Tandy, and eventually SCO brands) were OEM-licensed from Microsoft, who created 
and owned the Xenix trademark.  This arrangement existed through the 286 and 
386 versions, while MS's own programming resources worked at DOS, OS/2, and 
eventually Windows.

1991: Novell buys Digital Research to acquire DR-DOS, in the hopes of keeping 
DOS alive longer than MS claims it wants it to be.  Novell Netware rules among 
DOS clients and MS rules among Win clients (since they are OS-bundled).

1993: Novell buys Unix from AT&T.

1994: Caldera founded by Novell CEO Ray Noorda, who was run out on a rail due 
primarily to the loss of market-share for Netware and criticism over the timing 
of the Unix acquisition and the protracted payback timeline.

1995: SCO buys Xenix from Microsoft.  SCO buys Unix from Novell.

1996: Caldera buys "Novell DOS" (DR-DOS) from Novell, which evolves into 
Caldera OpenDos.

1998: Caldera Inc. divides into Caldera Systems (Linux market) and Caldera Thin 
Clients (client/embedded market).  OpenDos goes to Thin Clients division.

1999: Caldera Thin Clients renames itself Lineo.

2001: Caldera Systems buys majority of assets of SCO Group and renames itself 
Caldera International.

2002: Caldera International returns to the SCO brand, dba SCO.

Gates never needed to swallow SCO.  He was their sole reason for existence for 
the first 15 years of their lives and SCO only became autonomous when Bill 
decided he was through with them and allowed them to go and take Xenix with 
them.  He was already in...until =he= decided to get out.  He was "in" for 
twice as long as he's been "out". :)

The ugly truth is that SCO's heyday was when they were in bed with Microsoft, 
and they began a gradual decline after they left the nest.  It was Linux and 
Unix competition, not MS, that eventually ran them out of business.  If it 
wasn't for some former Novell folks thinking that using the SCO name to compete 
with MS would get BG's goat, SCO wouldn't exist at all any more.

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                                                             

...

 ml>> actually, IBM hasn't been pushing OS/2 for several reasons... one
 ml>> of the first being the high cost of enduser suppport... IBM has
 ml>> always made their money in corporate support and endusers aren't
 ml>> going to pay like that...

 A well made product requires much less end user support. Which
 is why most software requires a lot.

 ml>> another reason was m$'s threats to disallow IBM to market windows
 ml>> on IBM machines... those two are the major ones...

 MS did have a habit of trying to enforce anti-competitive
 practices. Which they have gotten singed for. Not singed enough
 to stop them, though.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Hmm... Nice tagline. Hey, look over there! <SWIPE!> SUCKER!!! HAHAHAHA
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                              

...
 RB>> That's why I run this very old version of GoldED.  It's the last and
 RB>> biggest one I could reliably shoehorn into this DOS/NDOS/QEMM/DV system.

 I am not familiar with GoldED. What is it?

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Space the final frontier ... Wait, did you say FIVE YEARS?
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                      

BOB KLAHN wrote in a message to ROBERT BULL:

 BK> ...
 RB>> That's why I run this very old version of GoldED.  It's the last and
 RB>> biggest one I could reliably shoehorn into this DOS/NDOS/QEMM/DV
 RB>> system.

 BK>  I am not familiar with GoldED. What is it?

It's a message editor,  similar in many respects to TimED,  which is what I'm 
using here.  Rather than me logging on to the bbs locally,  I use it instead,  
and it just accesses the same message area files that the bbs uses.  It's 
always made a lot more sense to me than a sysop doing QWK packet stuff.  
Another one is Msged,  which is one of the ones I started with,  and which has 
been around a *long* time.  There are probably others...

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
 

Hello, Roy;

11 Aug 03 04:07, Roy J. Tellason wrote to Robert Bull:

 RT>> Me?  A major source of files?  When did that happen?  :-)

 RT> I just looked and there's only 14,217 in the files list at the present

I rest my case  :-))

 RT> I guess I do collect a bunch of them.  :-)

Just a few  :-)

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                             

Hello, Mike;

11 Aug 03 20:05, Mike Powell wrote to Roy J. Tellason:

 MP> now having another with a small program that scans a message base and
 MP> removes any CTRL-Z characters it finds.  Sometimes it just freezes

I know this sounds stupid, but have you tried reinstalling the .EXE?  I've 
twice had it happen (in over 13 years of computing) that that cured a 
problem, even though the .EXE on disk appeared undamaged.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                                

Hello, BOB;

12 Aug 03 20:38, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 BK>  So, IBM is in the running to be the white knight who saves the
 BK>  alternative operating system...whoda thunk?

IBM is no longer the 800lb gorilla.  Microsoft is.  So does that make 
formerly-Big Blue "one of us," or at least able to feel our pain?

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                       

Hello, Dave;

13 Aug 03 00:30, Dave Liquorice wrote to Robert Bull:

 DL> I *think* eComStation is produced by a third party who bought the

According to Mark, you're right  :-)

     Thanks,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                      

Hello, mark;

13 Aug 03 21:12, mark lewis wrote to Robert Bull:

 RB>> What do you mean by "end of life," a point beyond which IBM
 RB>> have said they will no longer support it?

 ml> yes...

Thanks.  But, less thanks to IBM  :-(

 RB>> What of eComStation, o whatever it's called?

 ml> that's handles by another organization that has purchased rights to
 ml> OS/2 and renamed it due to contract restrictions...

OK, thanks.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                            

Hello, Tim;

14 Aug 03 12:12, Tim Parsons wrote to Robert Bull:

 TP> The version I use (see tearline) works well too, and I run a similar
 TP> system (4DOS not NDOS, though, not that there's much difference).

 TP> -+- GoldED 3.0.1-os1 at Oblivion

It turns out I have the GED/GEM/GEN 301 series of archives here, and have 
dim memories of trying and failing to get another version of GoldED to 
work.  Maybe that was the one.  I should add that it normally runs from a 
MAIL.BAT in the DOS box, with ANSI loaded, amongst other things, so I may 
have less memory available in a DOS box than you do.  I'm quite happy with 
it (and it shows my registered status!) and have no plans to change 
unless/until moving to another computer.

     Regards,

              Robert.

... The few...  the proud...  the REGISTERED.
--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
            

Hello, BOB;

16 Aug 03 11:04, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 BK>  I am not familiar with GoldED. What is it?

 BK> -+- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 BK>  + Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)

I see you're using an OLR.

GoldED is the mightiest message editor (in a message to Tim I actually 
misspelled it GodED, until I noticed) for the Squish, JAM, Hudson, *.MSG 
etc. message bases used in sysop software.  I'm just a point, but a point 
uses a subset of the same kind of software.

GoldED is where I see messages listed, reply, forward, delete, reply in 
another area, all that kind of thing.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                       

Hi Robert:

It was Sunday August 17 2003. "Win9x and Arachne ?," murmured you to me.

 RB> It turns out I have the GED/GEM/GEN 301 series of archives here, and have
 RB> dim memories of trying and failing to get another version of GoldED to
 RB> work.  Maybe that was the one.

Could've been. There were problems the first time I tried it too (enthused by 
its status change to freeware!) which had me beating my head against an 
inability to see my .msg netmail area from a Squish config. Turned out (when I 
squeaked about it somewhere) that it was a known problem, resolved by a change 
to the executable.

 RB> I should add that it normally runs from a MAIL.BAT in the DOS box,
 RB> with ANSI loaded, amongst other things, so I may have less memory
 RB> available in a DOS box than you do.  I'm quite happy with it (and it
 RB> shows my registered status!) and have no plans to change unless/until
 RB> moving to another computer.

I've never had memory issues with it. But I run it direct from a DESQview PIF, 
with a maximum program size set to 500K base and 4Mb EMS, and no ANSI loaded.

I used to use a tiny DV-aware ANSI client - ran as a shared program - called 
dgansi, that worked very well for me, until I needed to reclaim that 2k of 
system memory for other reasons...

Bests,

Tim

--- GoldED 3.0.1-os1 at Oblivion
 * Origin: Points and feeds from Oblivion BBS - 01424-732915 (2:25/108)
     

##
# actually, IBM hasn't been pushing OS/2 for several reasons... one of the 
first
# being the high cost of enduser suppport... IBM has always made their money in
# corporate support and endusers aren't going to pay like that... another 
reason
# was m$'s threats to disallow IBM to market windows on IBM machines... those 
two
# are the major ones...
##[=>DL]
 
Those where the reasons nigh on ten years ago. IBM don't push it now
because they are dropping it.
 
Cheers
Dave.
 
##MMR 2.61#.  !link   8-13-03 21:10
 

--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                               

RB>I know this sounds stupid, but have you tried reinstalling the .EXE?  I've
RB>twice had it happen (in over 13 years of computing) that that cured a
RB>problem, even though the .EXE on disk appeared undamaged.

No, actually, that sounds like a good idea.  I will have to try that.

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "Did you open the Microwave door before the 'ding'"?


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                           

Hello, BOB;

18 Aug 03 05:12, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 RB>> GoldED is where I see messages listed, reply, forward,

 BK>  Hmmm...might be worth looking into.

If you do that, you're moving towards being a point.  I used to use Blue 
Wave; once I became a point I didn't look back, but, it's a big change of 
software and ways of doing things.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                       

Hello, Tim;

18 Aug 03 07:37, Tim Parsons wrote to Robert Bull:

 TP> I've never had memory issues with it. But I run it direct from a
 TP> DESQview PIF, with a maximum program size set to 500K base and 4Mb
 TP> EMS, and no ANSI loaded.

I can't remember all the details now, but I give the DV window 576K base, 
with nothing set in the EMS box.

 TP> I used to use a tiny DV-aware ANSI client - ran as a shared program -
 TP> called dgansi, that worked very well for me, until I needed to reclaim
 TP> that 2k of system memory for other reasons...

I use PC Magazine's ANSI13J because it's a .COM file so I don't have to 
load it globally.  It takes about 3K.  I see it's dated 1988  :-)

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                      

Mike Powell wrote in a message to Robert Bull:

RB>I know this sounds stupid, but have you tried reinstalling the .EXE?  I've
RB>twice had it happen (in over 13 years of computing) that that cured a
RB>problem, even though the .EXE on disk appeared undamaged.

MP> No, actually, that sounds like a good idea.  I will have to try 
MP> that.

FWIW,  there have been a couple of occasions that I can recall where this 
worked for me,  too.  A program would just start acting weird,  with no 
apparent explanation for its behavior,  or it wouldn't work at all,  either 
freezing up or dropping back to a command prompt with no further action.  
Re-installing it helped to cure the problem.

Only once or twice over a lot of years,  but yeah,  it's happened.

Good thing I keep the distribution archives around.  :-)

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
                            

 RB> Hello, BOB;

 RB> 18 Aug 03 05:12, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 RB>>> GoldED is where I see messages listed, reply, forward,

 BK>>  Hmmm...might be worth looking into.

 RB> If you do that, you're moving towards being a point.  I
 RB> used to use Blue Wave; once I became a point I didn't look
 RB> back, but, it's a big change of software and ways of doing
 RB> things.

 Ok, I don't believe I wanted to do that. I've had enough change
 for a while.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Shift happens. - Doppler
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                                                     

Hi Robert:

It was Sunday August 24 2003. "Win9x and Arachne ?," murmured you to me.

 TP>> I've never had memory issues with it. But I run it direct from a
 TP>> DESQview PIF, with a maximum program size set to 500K base and 4Mb
 TP>> EMS, and no ANSI loaded.

 RB> I can't remember all the details now, but I give the DV window 576K base,
 RB> with nothing set in the EMS box.

That might have been part of the problem? If you're - or rather were! - using 
GoldED/386, it well might have expected to find something to play with above 
and beyond base, I think. Although the documentation seems to suggest that as 
long as it's got 512K base, it'll work, although the less available memory, the 
slower it's likely to be.

There are also suggestions in the docs that a large messagebase might have 
caused problems if you weren't using GoldED/386 with enough memory, or were 
using the 16-bit flavour.

 RB> I use PC Magazine's ANSI13J because it's a .COM file so I don't have to
 RB> load it globally.  It takes about 3K.  I see it's dated 1988  :-)

DGANSI - if memory serves - was proof against ANSI bombs. Mind you, I can't 
remember the last time I heard about one of those happening... ;-)

I only rarely load an ANSI driver for anything, these days. When I do need one, 
I find dvansi is generally good enough.

Bests,

Tim

--- GoldED 3.0.1-os1 at Oblivion
 * Origin: Points and feeds from Oblivion BBS - 01424-732915 (2:25/108)
                                                                                                  

 DL> ##
 DL> # actually, IBM hasn't been pushing OS/2 for several
 DL> reasons... one of the first
 DL> # being the high cost of enduser suppport... IBM has always
 DL> made their money in
 DL> # corporate support and endusers aren't going to pay like
 DL> that... another reason
 DL> # was m$'s threats to disallow IBM to market windows on IBM
 DL> machines... those two
 DL> # are the major ones...
##[=>>DL]
 DL>
 DL> Those where the reasons nigh on ten years ago. IBM don't push
 DL> it now because they are dropping it.

and they are dropping it because of those reasons... the reasons haven't 
changed over time... only additional reasons have been added...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                      

Hello, BOB;

25 Aug 03 08:19, BOB KLAHN wrote to ROBERT BULL:

 BK>  Ok, I don't believe I wanted to do that. I've had enough change

Me, too.  Besides, "If it ain't broke..."

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                                                       

Hello, Tim;

25 Aug 03 19:54, Tim Parsons wrote to Robert Bull:

 RB>> I can't remember all the details now, but I give the DV window
 RB>> 576K base, with nothing set in the EMS box.

 TP> That might have been part of the problem? If you're - or rather were!
 TP> - using GoldED/386, it well might have expected to find something to
 TP> play with above and beyond base, I think. Although the documentation

Could be, I hadn't thought of that.  OTOH, even the 16-bit version I'm 
using now seems to take an inordinate amount of memory.  I can't always get 
a third DV window up without DV swapping to disk.

 TP> There are also suggestions in the docs that a large messagebase might
 TP> have caused problems if you weren't using GoldED/386 with enough
 TP> memory, or were using the 16-bit flavour.

Most of my message bases are set to a 250 message barrier.  The only ones 
to exceed that now are netmail, about 1600, and personal, about 1950, but 
those were probably smaller back then.

 TP> DGANSI - if memory serves - was proof against ANSI bombs. Mind you, I
 TP> can't remember the last time I heard about one of those happening...

Hmmm, might try to find a copy.  ANSI14J allows you to switch keyboard 
remapping off.  Horst Schaeffer suggested patching ANSI so that the kb call 
was non-standard, but I nver did quite understand what he meant  ;-)

I imagine that ANSI bombers have gone to the Internet for point-and-click 
virus kits  :-(

 TP> I only rarely load an ANSI driver for anything, these days. When I do

Me too neither, especially when lots of other "coloured echo" programs 
exist.

     Regards,

              Robert.

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 * Origin: The Luminous Void (2:250/501.4)
                                                                               

DROP
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                                                             

> However, using DR-DOS' multi-OS loader LOADER you could
> install both MS-DOS 6.22 and DR-DOS 7.03, or PC DOS 2000
> and DR-DOS 7.03 onto the same system if you install DR-DOS
> after one of the other systems (some tricks are necessary
> to combine DR-DOS with PC DOS due to the naming conflict
> of the system files (in both OS they are named IBMBIO.COM
> and IBMDOS.COM), but using SYS /DR:703 you will be able
> to work around this problem), so you can switch back and
> forth between them as you see fit. I'm pretty sure, the
> forthcoming DR-DOS will also be interesting for you, but
> it is not yet available, so the best desktop DR-DOS you
> can get at the moment is 7.03.
 
Will this work if you install FreeDOS and DR-DOS 7.03?
 
Mike
 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                         

From: hypertech <daybrown@hypertech.net>

I have a small dos text mode tool that needs testing.
designed to present ascii text ebooks in a more readable and convenient 
fashion.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                       

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

óÁÌÑÍ!

2-îÏÑ-2003 23:13 _daybrown@hypertech.net (hypertech) wrote to
opendos@delorie.com:

h> I have a small dos text mode tool that needs testing. designed to present
h> ascii text ebooks in a more readable and convenient fashion.

     What I may do for you?




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                            

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>


> >daybrown@hypertech.net (hypertech) wrote to
> > opendos@delorie.com:
> >
> > h> I have a small dos text mode tool that needs testing. designed to 
present
> > h> ascii text ebooks in a more readable and convenient fashion.
> >
> >      What I may do for you?
Well, I could send just the executables, 100k, or include a sample
novel,
445k total, which ever you prefer.

You can take any ASCII text, reformat it with the right margin at 39,
and it will display it in two 39char columns on the 50x80 vga screen.

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                               

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

óÁÌÑÍ!

9-îÏÑ-2003 01:05 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
daybrown@ozarkisp.net, opendos@delorie.com:

>> > h> I have a small dos text mode tool that needs testing. designed to 
present
>> > h> ascii text ebooks in a more readable and convenient fashion.
>> >      What I may do for you?
DB> Well, I could send just the executables, 100k, or include a sample
DB> novel, 445k total, which ever you prefer.
DB> You can take any ASCII text, reformat it with the right margin at 39,
DB> and it will display it in two 39char columns on the 50x80 vga screen.

     What and how I should test?




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                           

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

"Arkady V.Belousov" wrote:
> 
> óÁÌÑÍ!
> 
> 9-îÏÑ-2003 01:05 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
> daybrown@ozarkisp.net, opendos@delorie.com:
> 
> >> > h> I have a small dos text mode tool that needs testing. designed to 
present
> >> > h> ascii text ebooks in a more readable and convenient fashion.
> >> >      What I may do for you?
> DB> Well, I could send just the executables, 100k, or include a sample
> DB> novel, 445k total, which ever you prefer.
> DB> You can take any ASCII text, reformat it with the right margin at 39,
> DB> and it will display it in two 39char columns on the 50x80 vga screen.
> 
>      What and how I should test?
I've seen it work on drdos 7 & the win 98 'reboot' to dos. Should I
assume it works on all other dos versions still in use? Seen it work on
a 486. Should I assume it works on anything less, or is there so little
left of the 386, I shouldnt worry.

Should I bother with trying to setup a self extracting archive that
would create a directory and install in it, or just make a .zip
available assuming that anyone who still runs dos knows what to do?

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                               

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

9-îÏÑ-2003 22:17 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
opendos@delorie.com:

>>      What and how I should test?
DB> I've seen it work on drdos 7 & the win 98 'reboot' to dos. Should I
DB> assume it works on all other dos versions still in use?

     I may test under MS-DOS 6.22. But if your program doesn't deal directly
with disks and doesn't touches OS internal structures and not uses
nondocumented tricks, it shouldn't have any troubles with MS-DOS 6.22 also.

DB> Seen it work on a 486. Should I assume it works on anything less, or is
DB> there so little left of the 386, I shouldnt worry.

     I have no 8086-80286 at hands.

DB> Should I bother with trying to setup a self extracting archive that
DB> would create a directory and install in it, or just make a .zip
DB> available assuming that anyone who still runs dos knows what to do?

     I myself prefer not deal with plain executables downloading, I prefer
download archives. And I prefer to unpack into directories, which I want.
Other peoples may heva other preferences.




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                      

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

"Arkady V.Belousov" wrote:
 
>      I myself prefer not deal with plain executables downloading, I prefer
> download archives. And I prefer to unpack into directories, which I want.
> Other peoples may heva other preferences.
Thanx, that is one aspect to nail down. 

I can send ANZI.ZIP, which is just the executables and the batch which
calls
them. I just found a reformatting tool which is not yet tried, but could
add that, so that anyone could take any ascii text, and the ANZI tool
set could take that input, convert it into the 39char format, and then
display it on the 50x80 vga. Or- offer a variation for those of limited
vision, which uses the 25x40 screen. I dunno how much demand there would
be for that. I've considered trying to make a 43x132 version that would
look much more like the facing pages of a real book, but I dunno if all
the variation in video cards would make that feasible. Any bets?

I can send NEWOMEN.zip, which is a sample 300 page novel, designed in
some ways to take advantage of the presentation format. I make no claims
as to the literary merit, and if anyone has suggestions for insertion,
deletion, and/or replacement, I'll try to be accomodating. In any case,
anyone, who thinks they can do better with it can have a go. It is
intended more like a folk tale, without author ownership, subject to
modification as time goes on to meet the needs of the times. Since it is
*digital*, there is no reason to consider it *fixed* like a printed book
edition, any more than any other kind of software. 

I can send NEWOMEN.EXE, for win 9x users who dont know the difference
between a folder and a dos directory, which makes a copy of NWM.BAT in
the windows directory so that a GUI user can cope with it.

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                         

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

Hi folks.

In recent times, I have encountered a number of DOS applications
with optional LFN support. When LFN services are not available to
access files, they revert to equivalent SFN (non-LFN) services instead.

Unfortunately, when LFN interrupt 21/716C (open or create file) is
not available, some of these applications revert to interrupt 21/6C00
but without checking that the DOS supports this particular call. The
result is that on DR-DOS 6.0 (and others), these applications crash.

So, to overcome this problem, I have written a small TSR that
intercepts interrupt 21/6C00 and maps this to either interrupt 21/3C
or interrupt 21/3D. Now I can run these applications on DR-DOS 6.0
without them crashing (typically with Run Time Error 6). If this TSR
is useful to you, I have added it to my 'util2.zip' file at :
http://jds-freeware.hypermart.net

Joe.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                      

Day Brown wrote in a message to All:

 DB> From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Day Brown?!  I remember you...

Still have stuff in the files section here that you uploaded *way* back when. 
<g>

How're you doing?

(rtellason@blazenet.net,  if you wanna take it there.)

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
                                                     

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

10-îÏÑ-2003 15:20 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
opendos@delorie.com:

DB> I can send ANZI.ZIP, which is just the executables and the batch which
DB> calls them.

     What and how I may/should test with it?




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
               

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

"Arkady V.Belousov" wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> 10-îÏÑ-2003 15:20 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
> opendos@delorie.com:
> 
> DB> I can send ANZI.ZIP, which is just the executables and the batch which
> DB> calls them.
> 
>      What and how I may/should test with it?
Whatcha got?
I tried it on a 486 and a socket 370 with SVGA. Is that enough to be
reasonably sure it will work on any x86 pc with a VGA? Tried it with
Freedos, drdos, & the win 98 'reboot to dos'. I didnt get it to work in
the Linux dosemu; it wont run in a small window under win 98 either, and
Linux dont allow the user to change modes from the 80x25 screen. Would
the MAC dosemu work?

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                         

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

13-îÏÑ-2003 16:10 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
opendos@delorie.com:

>> DB> I can send ANZI.ZIP, which is just the executables and the batch which
>> DB> calls them.
>>      What and how I may/should test with it?
DB> Whatcha got? I tried it on a 486 and a socket 370 with SVGA. Is that
DB> enough to be reasonably sure it will work on any x86 pc with a VGA?

     I may test on 386sx with MS-DOS 6.22

DB> Tried it with Freedos, drdos, & the win 98 'reboot to dos'. I didnt get
DB> it to work in the Linux dosemu; it wont run in a small window under win
DB> 98 either, and Linux dont allow the user to change modes from the 80x25
DB> screen. Would the MAC dosemu work?




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                               

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

Hello all,

You may wish to know that Michael Polak's Arachne, currently
the best graphical Web browser for DOS, has been finally
released under GPL, and a new version (1.73) is available.

Unfortunately, there is no official download site yet.
A temporary site is http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/ar173gpl/

If you are interested in further development of Arachne or
just want to get help from Arachne users community, please
join 'arachne4dos' mailing list at www.coollist.com.

Happy browsing,

Michal

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--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                    

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

Hello all,

You may wish to know that Michael Polak's Arachne, currently
the best graphical Web browser for DOS, has been finally
released under GPL, and a new version (1.73) is available.

Unfortunately, there is no official download site yet.
A temporary site is http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/ar173gpl/

If you are interested in further development of Arachne or
just want to get help from Arachne users community, please
join 'arachne4dos' mailing list at www.coollist.com.

Happy browsing,

Michal


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                         

From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

> A temporary site is http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/ar173gpl/

   "What is Arachne?What is Arachne.txt It is a Internet Browser for DOS,
   allong with an excellent GUI desktop inviroment for your Comuter."

   Three typo's in the first sentence alone! A bit of proof-reading might
be in order if we don't want DOS-users to look like they're not the
brightest bunch in the pack. :-\

dp.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                  

  Re: Re: Arachne Web browser for DOS released under GPL
  By: DONALD PEDDER to All on Sat Nov 15 2003 09:15 am

 > From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>
 > 
 > > A temporary site is http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/ar173gpl/
 > 
 >    "What is Arachne?What is Arachne.txt It is a Internet Browser for DOS,
 >    allong with an excellent GUI desktop inviroment for your Comuter."
 > 
 >    Three typo's in the first sentence alone! A bit of proof-reading might
 > be in order if we don't want DOS-users to look like they're not the
 > brightest bunch in the pack. :-\

Well... they aren't....  Sorry... couldn't resist.  hahaha

Just joking... you can continue your erstwhile endevours.  :)


Sniper
Killed In Action BBS SysOp
telnet://kia.zapto.org
ftp://kia.zapto.org
nntp://kia.zapto.org:120

DoveNet, NukeNet, XpresitNet, FidoNet (1:3613/52) MirageNet (90:90/105),
MetalNet (282:180/0), JustaXnet (510:202/2), SkyNet (30:3300/1)  ACNet,
Communications Net, Paranormal Net, League 10 IBBS Net, PiperNet, Video 
Games Net, MicroNet, and many newsgroup areas for your enjoyment, 
Newsgroups added by request!

--- SBBSecho 2.00-Win32
 * Origin: Killed in Action BBS  telnet://kia.zapto.org (1:3613/52)
                                                                    

Reply is to a message from: DONALD PEDDER
 
>    Three typo's in the first sentence alone! A bit of proof-reading might
> be in order if we don't want DOS-users to look like they're not the
> brightest bunch in the pack. :-\
 
I don't know about that site, but the original Arachne group was
from a non-English speaking country... either the Czech Republic, or
Slovakia.  Might account for the improper English.  ;-)
 
Mike
 
##MMR 2.61(beta).  !link DONAL 11-15-03 09:15 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                            

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

On 2003-10-10, I wrote:

> Caldera OpenDOS 7.01 was updated to OpenDOS 7.02 Betas
> in late 1997 and released as Caldera DR-DOS 7.02 in early
> 1998. After several minor updates, the final version of
> DR-DOS 7.03 was released in 1998-01 almost immediately
> before the Caldera UK development center, where DR-DOS
> has been developed, was closed.

Of course, I meant 1999-01 when the final version of
DR-DOS 7.03 was released. Just for the records...

Greetings,

 Matthias

-- 
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org

"Programs are poems for computers."


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                    

From: "Alain" <alainm@pobox.com>

Hi,

could you please test Cutemouse 1.6b
It is a fork, mde by me. The big advantage is that it
can detect serial mice ate _real_time_. That is it: you can change
_any_ serial mouse without reconfiguring.

This is of interest to me because I carefully crafted that version
for univesality just a short time before Arkady took mantainance.
As it is impossible to win an argument with a russian, and he never
has a final version for me to do the same job again, I am still using
my version

Please try it, if you don't have it, I can mail you one

Alain


> Well, since I don't think this message was followed up, I would
> suggest that "Couldn't you have both in a single driver so that we
> can opt easely?" means "Couldn't we have the option to select
> PS/2 mouse detection via either BIOS or hardware?". This would
> make sense, rather than have one method used in 1.9.x (BIOS
> detection) and another in 2.0.x (hardware detection) ...
>
> Anyway, I have found a new problem. I replaced my old mouse
> (details not important, but it worked OK with CTMOUSE) with
> another old mouse, a 2HW73-7ES "ball-less" mouse made by
> Keytronic for Honeywell. This is a two button Micro$oft-mode
> serial port mouse, however CTMOUSE (1.8b8 and 1.9.1a1 and
> 2.0a4) insists on using Mouse Systems mode, which is wrong.
> If I specify "/Y" to prevent this from happening, it says "Device
> not found". However, if I run the COMTEST utility, this detects
> the mouse correctly as a Micro$oft-mode mouse. In addition,
> both Linux and Caldera's DRMOUSE R1.1 (as you know, this
> was based on an early version of CTMOUSE) correctly detect
> this mouse and work OK with it.
>
> So, there may be two separate problems. Clearly CTMOUSE is
> not detecting this mouse correctly. In addition, it is possible that
> the "/Y" command line switch doesn't work properly.
>
> Joe.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arkady V.Belousov [SMTP:ark@belous.munic.msk.su]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:33 AM
> > To: opendos@delorie.com
> > Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: CuteMouse 1.9.1 alpha 1 and CuteMouse 2.0
> > alpha 4
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > 22-ïËÔ-2003 12:31 _alainm@pobox.com (Alain) wrote to
> > <opendos@delorie.com>:
> >
> > >> dSJ> In case it's relevant, before config.sys and autoexec.bat are
> > >> dSJ> processed, there is a brief message "Panning Support Driver
> > >> dSJ> V1.0 ... (C) Toshiba ...". I have no idea what this is, however
> > AB>>      This is program/code, which unshrinks image in LCD screen.
> > Without
> > AB>> this, image on the screen is shrinked about 2/3 of screen height
> > (with high
> > AB>> black stripes above and below).
> > A> Couldn't you have both in a single driver so that we can opt easely?
> >
> >      This program is proprietary closed software from Toshiba. Other
> > notebooks manufacturers have its own software or their notebooks are not
> > subject of this sickness. Read:
> >
> > 1. you have no sources/specifications for this code.
> > 2. this code is very harware and vendor specific.
> > 3. this code not relates to mouse functions (mouse driver uses solely
> >    standard video functions of CGA/EGA/VGA and not comes down at lower
> > level
> >    to chipsets; currently CTMOUSE even not uses VESA).
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                             

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

25-îÏÑ-2003 17:14 _Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com (da Silva, Joe) wrote to
"'opendos@delorie.com'" <opendos@delorie.com>:

dSJ> Well, since I don't think this message was followed up, I would
dSJ> suggest that "Couldn't you have both in a single driver so that we
dSJ> can opt easely?" means "Couldn't we have the option to select
dSJ> PS/2 mouse detection via either BIOS or hardware?". This would

     Of course, this written in the plans. Though, there are some issues on
this way.

dSJ> Anyway, I have found a new problem. I replaced my old mouse (details not
dSJ> important, but it worked OK with CTMOUSE) with another old mouse, a
dSJ> 2HW73-7ES "ball-less" mouse made by Keytronic for Honeywell. This is a
dSJ> two button Micro$oft-mode serial port mouse, however CTMOUSE (1.8b8 and
dSJ> 1.9.1a1 and 2.0a4) insists on using Mouse Systems mode, which is wrong.

     May you send me result of "PROTOCOL 1 3>RESULT"? Run this command, move
mouse up/down/left/right, then press Esc.

dSJ> If I specify "/Y" to prevent this from happening, it says "Device not
dSJ> found". However, if I run the COMTEST utility, this detects the mouse
dSJ> correctly as a Micro$oft-mode mouse. In addition,

     Which hardware (CPU) on your machine?

dSJ> both Linux and Caldera's DRMOUSE R1.1 (as you know, this was based on an
dSJ> early version of CTMOUSE) correctly detect this mouse and work OK with it.

dSJ> So, there may be two separate problems. Clearly CTMOUSE is
dSJ> not detecting this mouse correctly. In addition, it is possible that
dSJ> the "/Y" command line switch doesn't work properly.

     No, /Y option works properly, as expected - it prevents Mouse Systems
mode handler if no mouse in MS or Logitech mode is detected, as explained in
CTMOUSE.TXT.




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
               

From: "Alain" <alainm@pobox.com>

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>
>      Of course, this written in the plans. Though, there are some issues
on
> this way.

May at judjement day's eve we can have a final version. The problem is
not that he doesn't do it, but that it is allways getting better, but never
quite functional...

Alain



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                         

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

óÁÌÑÍ!

26-îÏÑ-2003 18:47 _alainm@pobox.com (Alain) wrote to <opendos@delorie.com>:

>>      Of course, this written in the plans. Though, there are some issues on 
this way.
A> May at judjement day's eve we can have a final version. The problem is
A> not that he doesn't do it, but that it is allways getting better, but never
A> quite functional...

     It _is_ functional. Though, its functionality slightly different from
your vision and may be evoluted into something other (i.e. there may be
added new functionality).





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                    

From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

   I've never gotten around to setting up DR-DOS fully on this computer,
but I'm doing it now, and some new problems have cropped up as well (see
end of E-mail for my autoexec and config), so here goes...

1. I could never get taskmgr to work properly on this computer - that is,
until I saw someone mention "taskmgr /s", which got it going (this was a
new option since I'd used the previous version). However, I am still
having a problem with it.
   I can get several sessions started, but if I try to swap sessions while
one of them has the editor loaded, I get "exception 6", and the session
crashes. The reason I use several sessions to start with is so that I can
edit/reference several files at a time, so needless to say this problem
means I still can't use taskmgr for what I want it for.


2. I am using bitcom as my dial-up software. It has an option to drop back
down into DOS, but several things that I try to do (like using the editor)
tell me "insufficient memory", even though I have 64Mb of memory (and I
ran this software okay when I only had a 386).


3. I have a problem which is isolated to the root directory on one
partition. I notice that Windows has touched it (despite my efforts to
keep it clean). It has a "recycled" directory in there, and I'm unable to
clear it out with deltree (deltree says no such file exists, but it's
there if I do a "dir /s"). This may or may not be relevant.
   Anyhow, when I want to use the editor in this directory I get "internal
error 82". I also get it if a do a "type filename|more", however it works
with just "type filename" (which is no good for multi-page files). Ditto
if I try to re-direct. For a while I was able to get around the editor
problem by deleting the .$$$ files, but that no longer works. I am able to
edit my files if I move them to another directory. Any ideas on how to
clear up this directory? (I'd rather not re-format if it can be avoided)



@ECHO Off
PATH C:\DRDOS;C:\NWCLIENT;d:\pp\bin\go32v2;D:\tmtp200d;D:\pascal;C:\;d:\pkzip;C:\ARACHNE
VERIFY ON
SET PEXEC=vol
PROMPT $X[DR-DOS] $P$G
SET DRDOSCFG=C:\DRDOS
NWCACHE 7670 1024 /LEND=ON /DELAY=OFF
drmouse

REM ============== By CD-ROM driver ==============
C:\DRDOS\NWCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD000 /V
REM ============================================

green
share
taskmgr /s
type todo



DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\EMM386.EXE DPMI=OFF FRAME=NONE
DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\DPMS.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\SETVER.EXE
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:512 /P
BREAK=OFF
BUFFERS=15
FILES=50
FCBS=4,4
LASTDRIVE=G
HISTORY=ON,512,ON
COUNTRY=61,,C:\DRDOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB

REM ============== By CD-ROM driver ==============
DEVICE=C:\IDECD\IDECD.SYS /D:MSCD000
LASTDRIVE=Z
REM ============================================


thanks,
   DONALD.

E-mail               - donaldp@au.mensa.org
BIG DON's Home-page  - http://jedi.apana.org.au/~jims_son
Pedder Passer Rating - http://jedi.apana.org.au/~jims_son/PPR
AusNFL mailing-list  - http://jedi.apana.org.au/mailman/listinfo/ausnfl

"What I always wanted is to be accepted, not understood" - MAN RAY


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                         

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 27 Nov 2003 at 22:05, DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> 1. I could never get taskmgr to work properly on this computer - that is,
> until I saw someone mention "taskmgr /s", which got it going (this was a
> new option since I'd used the previous version). However, I am still
> having a problem with it.
>    I can get several sessions started, but if I try to swap sessions while
> one of them has the editor loaded, I get "exception 6", and the session
> crashes. The reason I use several sessions to start with is so that I can
> edit/reference several files at a time, so needless to say this problem
> means I still can't use taskmgr for what I want it for.

I gave up on taskmgr a long time ago. Try finding a 
copy of QEMM/Desqview.
 
> 2. I am using bitcom as my dial-up software. It has an option to drop back
> down into DOS, but several things that I try to do (like using the editor)
> tell me "insufficient memory", even though I have 64Mb of memory (and I
> ran this software okay when I only had a 386).

Remember, as far as anything running in *any* DOS is 
concerned, you hsave no more than 640k of RAM (768 
if you play certain games).

So unless it knows how to swap to EMS/XMS, and you 
have enough set aside for that task, there *isn't* 
enough RAM.

> 3. I have a problem which is isolated to the root directory on one
> partition. I notice that Windows has touched it (despite my efforts to
> keep it clean). It has a "recycled" directory in there, and I'm unable to
> clear it out with deltree (deltree says no such file exists, but it's
> there if I do a "dir /s"). This may or may not be relevant.

The recycled directory has the "hidden" attribute 
set. This confuses a lot of DOS programs.

>    Anyhow, when I want to use the editor in this directory I get "internal
> error 82". I also get it if a do a "type filename|more", however it works
> with just "type filename" (which is no good for multi-page files). Ditto
> if I try to re-direct. For a while I was able to get around the editor
> problem by deleting the .$$$ files, but that no longer works. I am able to
> edit my files if I move them to another directory. Any ideas on how to
> clear up this directory? (I'd rather not re-format if it can be avoided)

Well, you should move any files you need to another 
directory, then remove the hidden attribute (use the 
attrib command) and then remove the directory.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                           

From: "Ben A L Jemmett" <ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk>

> 3. I have a problem which is isolated to the root directory on one
> partition. I notice that Windows has touched it (despite my efforts to
> keep it clean). It has a "recycled" directory in there, and I'm unable to
> clear it out with deltree (deltree says no such file exists, but it's
> there if I do a "dir /s"). This may or may not be relevant.

It's probably got the hidden or system attributes set.  If you still have
Windows installed, you might be able to get rid of it by right-clicking on the
Recycle Bin and clicking Properties, selecting "Configure drives
independently" then tick the "Do not move files to the Recycle Bin" box on the
tab corresponding to the partition in question.

Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ben.jemmett/, http://www.deltasoft.com/)



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Jemmett Glover Software Development (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                        

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Mike Powell wrote:
> 
> Originally to: DONALD PEDDER
> 
> Reply is to a message from: DONALD PEDDER
> 
> >    Three typo's in the first sentence alone! A bit of proof-reading might
> > be in order if we don't want DOS-users to look like they're not the
> > brightest bunch in the pack. :-\
> 
> I don't know about that site, but the original Arachne group was
> from a non-English speaking country... either the Czech Republic, or
> Slovakia.  Might account for the improper English.  ;-)
I dunno that it matters. It looks like abandonware. I really liked it,
but since I moved to where none of the isps will logon with dos any
more, I have wondered how many are left that will be able to browse with
dos anyway.
Never mind all the pages it couldnt load.

Is there an effort to port xwindows or some kind of API to dos so that
it could run the win 3/os2 versions of opera or mozilla? Maybe in on a
32bit drive?


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

Hi Donald,

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:05:42 +1100 (EST), DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> I've never gotten around to setting up DR-DOS fully on this computer,

Could you tell us more about 'this computer' (CPU, mainboard, BIOS,
memory, add-on cards, etc.)?

> 1. I could never get taskmgr to work properly on this computer - that is,
> until I saw someone mention "taskmgr /s", which got it going (this was a
> new option since I'd used the previous version). However, I am still
> having a problem with it.

A bit strange, because if you don't have MULTI[TASKING]=ON in your 
DEVICE=EMM386.EXE line, TASKMGR can run _only_ as Task Switcher 
(so the /S option shouldn't make any difference).

What is the GREEN command in your AUTOEXEC? Some power saving TSR?
Maybe it causes some harmful interference with TASKMGR?

> I can get several sessions started, but if I try to swap sessions while
> one of them has the editor loaded, I get "exception 6", and the session
> crashes. The reason I use several sessions to start with is so that I can
> edit/reference several files at a time, so needless to say this problem
> means I still can't use taskmgr for what I want it for.

I remember I observed crashes when running Task Switcher (TASKMGR /S)
with EMM386 and CD redirector, and I remember also some other users
reporting similar troubles. Please try (1) with HIMEM.SYS instead of
EMM386; (2) with EMM386, but without NWCDEX.

> 2. I am using bitcom as my dial-up software. It has an option to drop back
> down into DOS, but several things that I try to do (like using the editor)
> tell me "insufficient memory", even though I have 64Mb of memory (and I
> ran this software okay when I only had a 386).

How much free conventional memory do you have? Could you redirect the
output of MEM /A to a file (MEM /A > MEM.LST) and post it to the list?

> 3. I have a problem which is isolated to the root directory on one
> partition. I notice that Windows has touched it (despite my efforts to
> keep it clean). It has a "recycled" directory in there, and I'm unable to
> clear it out with deltree (deltree says no such file exists, but it's
> there if I do a "dir /s"). This may or may not be relevant.
> Anyhow, when I want to use the editor in this directory I get "internal
> error 82". I also get it if a do a "type filename|more", however it works
> with just "type filename" (which is no good for multi-page files). Ditto
> if I try to re-direct. For a while I was able to get around the editor
> problem by deleting the .$$$ files, but that no longer works. I am able to
> edit my files if I move them to another directory. Any ideas on how to
> clear up this directory? (I'd rather not re-format if it can be avoided)

This sounds like orphanted LFN entries. DR-DOS kernel doesn't
understand long filenames and when you delete a file with long
filename under DR-DOS (or MS-DOS 6.x), the information about
the long filename remains (the LFN entries are designed in an
insane way to be invisible for old DOSes) and the directory isn't
empty and cannot be removed. The easiest way to correct this
problem is to run MS ScanDisk; DR-DOS CHKDSK refuses to work if
it encounters LFNs. You can also use a disk editor, but then you
must know exactly what you are doing.

Please tell us more about your system configuration.
There is at least a few experienced TASKMGR users on the list,
and I hope you'll finally get multitasking to work.

Regards,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                              

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Monday, 17 Nov 2003 21:57:00 -500, Mike Powell wrote:

> I don't know about that site, but the original Arachne group was
> from a non-English speaking country... either the Czech Republic, or
> Slovakia.  Might account for the improper English.  ;-)

>From Czech Republic. But I don't know who is the author of that
website with spelling errors; he calls himself Bear, and even looks
like a bear ;-).

The official Arachne Labs website (http://www.arachne.cz/ -- still
with old Arachne 1.70 -- is in much better English).

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                         

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

You might download QEMM	and see if that works for you.
but I always had text editors that could handle multiple files.
What happens when you try that?
are you trying to run a spreadsheet too?

I believe the 'insufficient memory' thing is what is left of the
original 640k 'real mode' ram you have left after bitcom or whatever,
drops to dos. 
You might download {commo} and try it. That termcom, IIRC, was entirely
handwired assembly, and an elegant piece of work which didnt need much
ram to run in.

You can always rename a corrupted directory: "BROWNED.FAT", which your
editor aint looking for, keep on working. Browned fat is better than
fried.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                      

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 28 Nov 2003 at 14:38, da Silva, Joe wrote:

> Leonard's statement that "anything running in any DOS" can only
> use 640k, is not true of course, it is only true for some applications.
> But as a FreePas user, you would already know this.

Sure, there's EMS, and XMS, and various other 
tricks, including the HMA. But a program complaining 
about being "out of memory" is almost always out of 
conventional RAM. 

Yes, programs like QEMM can allow multiple programs 
to have their own conventional RAM. But that max 
limit still exists.

I've done stuff like use QRAM and included utilities 
to get 768k of "conventional" RAM on an XT and on a 
286. And used QEMM with multiple tasks/sessions on 
386 and 486 systems. 

So I do have more than a passing familiarity with 
what happens with DOS based software.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                          

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

What do you mean "none of the isps will logon with dos any more"?

All ISP's work fine with DOS, except "ad server" cr*p, of course,
which only work with Windoze.

If you have a problem using Arachne with an ISP (using a _real_
modem of course, not a WinModem), ask for help at one of the
new Arachne mailing lists, I'm sure your problem will be solved
promptly.

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Day Brown [SMTP:daybrown@hypertech.net]
> Sent:	Friday, November 28, 2003 2:18 PM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	Re: Arachne Web browser for DO
> 
> Mike Powell wrote:
> > 
> > Originally to: DONALD PEDDER
> > 
> > Reply is to a message from: DONALD PEDDER
> > 
> > >    Three typo's in the first sentence alone! A bit of proof-reading
> might
> > > be in order if we don't want DOS-users to look like they're not the
> > > brightest bunch in the pack. :-\
> > 
> > I don't know about that site, but the original Arachne group was
> > from a non-English speaking country... either the Czech Republic, or
> > Slovakia.  Might account for the improper English.  ;-)
> I dunno that it matters. It looks like abandonware. I really liked it,
> but since I moved to where none of the isps will logon with dos any
> more, I have wondered how many are left that will be able to browse with
> dos anyway.
> Never mind all the pages it couldnt load.
> 
> Is there an effort to port xwindows or some kind of API to dos so that
> it could run the win 3/os2 versions of opera or mozilla? Maybe in on a
> 32bit drive?


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
     

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

I too gave up on "taskmgr" a long time ago. It seems unstable on some
systems, mine included.

Instead, I use an editor that can open several files at once (BP7's IDE
in fact), then switch between files (full size windows) or display more
than one file at a time (reduced size windows). I think FreePas' IDE
can also do this.

Of course, "windows" is used here in its true and original sense, not
referring to that Windoze trademark that was somehow obtained from
the US Trademark & Patent Office (or whatever they call themselves),
even though this was against the trademark rules.

Leonard's statement that "anything running in any DOS" can only
use 640k, is not true of course, it is only true for some applications.
But as a FreePas user, you would already know this.

As for your directory problem, try ScanDisk under Windoze (if you
can), no other option from M$ will fix LFN errors, only report them.
Another possibility is Odi's LFN Tools, you may be able to use
one of them to sort out this LFN mess. (Can't remember the URL,
but it should be easy to find with Google, et. al.).

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]
> Sent:	Friday, November 28, 2003 5:12 AM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	Re: several technical problems
> 
> On 27 Nov 2003 at 22:05, DONALD PEDDER wrote:
> 
> > 1. I could never get taskmgr to work properly on this computer - that
> is,
> > until I saw someone mention "taskmgr /s", which got it going (this was a
> > new option since I'd used the previous version). However, I am still
> > having a problem with it.
> >    I can get several sessions started, but if I try to swap sessions
> while
> > one of them has the editor loaded, I get "exception 6", and the session
> > crashes. The reason I use several sessions to start with is so that I
> can
> > edit/reference several files at a time, so needless to say this problem
> > means I still can't use taskmgr for what I want it for.
> 
> I gave up on taskmgr a long time ago. Try finding a 
> copy of QEMM/Desqview.
>  
> > 2. I am using bitcom as my dial-up software. It has an option to drop
> back
> > down into DOS, but several things that I try to do (like using the
> editor)
> > tell me "insufficient memory", even though I have 64Mb of memory (and I
> > ran this software okay when I only had a 386).
> 
> Remember, as far as anything running in *any* DOS is 
> concerned, you hsave no more than 640k of RAM (768 
> if you play certain games).
> 
> So unless it knows how to swap to EMS/XMS, and you 
> have enough set aside for that task, there *isn't* 
> enough RAM.
> 
> > 3. I have a problem which is isolated to the root directory on one
> > partition. I notice that Windows has touched it (despite my efforts to
> > keep it clean). It has a "recycled" directory in there, and I'm unable
> to
> > clear it out with deltree (deltree says no such file exists, but it's
> > there if I do a "dir /s"). This may or may not be relevant.
> 
> The recycled directory has the "hidden" attribute 
> set. This confuses a lot of DOS programs.
> 
> >    Anyhow, when I want to use the editor in this directory I get
> "internal
> > error 82". I also get it if a do a "type filename|more", however it
> works
> > with just "type filename" (which is no good for multi-page files). Ditto
> > if I try to re-direct. For a while I was able to get around the editor
> > problem by deleting the .$$$ files, but that no longer works. I am able
> to
> > edit my files if I move them to another directory. Any ideas on how to
> > clear up this directory? (I'd rather not re-format if it can be avoided)
> 
> Well, you should move any files you need to another 
> directory, then remove the hidden attribute (use the 
> attrib command) and then remove the directory.
> 
> 
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at krypton dot rain dot com
> 


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                    

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> I gave up on taskmgr a long time ago. Try finding a
> copy of QEMM/Desqview.

DESQview and DESQview/X were available at:

     URL=http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html

DV/X requires QEMM, DV does not.

-- Gary Welles



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                  

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Day Brown writes:

> . . . since I moved to where none of the isps will logon with dos . . .

Most dialup ISPs offer only CHAP login.  The free DOS TCP/IP
stacks usually support LAN connections or dialin with simple
terminal prompt login or PAP login.  Netmanage's DOS PC/TCP stack
and dialer support all three and costs at least $100.  The stack
offers for DR-DOS also cost extra and I expect likewise offers
CHAP authentication.

UUnet, the first commercial ISP, continues to offer terminal
prompt login at over 2,500 dialup points of presence world wide.
They are Pipex in the UK and better known as WorldCom or MCI
elsewhere.

They are a Tier 1 ISP who normally provide Internet services for
better known ISP who use some of those same points of prescence
with more secure CHAP login.  If you dial your present ISP with a
terminal application, it's likely you'll see a UUnet prompt such
as this:

     UQKT2 tnt54.nyc3.da.uu.net


     Login:

They don't advertise for individual accounts in the US, but you
can get them starting at $7.95, now under the MCI brand.  Details
at:  URL=https://customercenter.mci.com/



> Is there an effort to port xwindows or some kind of API to dos so that
> it could run the win 3/os2 versions of opera or mozilla? Maybe in on a
> 32bit drive?

X-Window is os independent.  Although normally seen on Unixes,
DESQview/X is a DOS X-server with DESQview providing the
multitasking DOS lacks and a private interface to QEMM providing
the flat 32 memory model.

DJGPP ports of Unix X-Window apps to DOS DV/X are straight
forward.  I can get very tedious converting Unix to DOS 8.3 file
names or if you have to write DESQview API calls to replace Unix
multitasking functions such as fork().

With the decline of DOS applications, it makes more sense to work
DOS apps from Unix or Linux rather than porting major X apps to
DOS DV/X.

See for DV/X details:

     URL=http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bmm/dvx.html

For a copy of DV/X:

     URL=http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html

-- Gary Welles



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                     

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Gary Welles wrote:
> 
> Day Brown writes:
> 
> > . . . since I moved to where none of the isps will logon with dos . . .
> 
> Most dialup ISPs offer only CHAP login. 
...
> with more secure CHAP login.  If you dial your present ISP with a
> terminal application, it's likely you'll see a UUnet prompt such
> as this:
> 
>      UQKT2 tnt54.nyc3.da.uu.net
> 
>      Login:
Nope. What I see is:
%ascend%
then it asks for the system administrator password.

 
> They don't advertise for individual accounts in the US, but you
> can get them starting at $7.95, now under the MCI brand.  Details
> at:  URL=https://customercenter.mci.com/
That's encouraging, however I live in a rural area of the Ozarks.
There are three local ISP choices, no other options.
> 
> > Is there an effort to port xwindows or some kind of API to dos so that
> > it could run the win 3/os2 versions of opera or mozilla? Maybe in on a
> > 32bit drive?
> 
> X-Window is os independent.  Although normally seen on Unixes,
> DESQview/X is a DOS X-server with DESQview providing the
> multitasking DOS lacks and a private interface to QEMM providing
> the flat 32 memory model.
> 
> DJGPP ports of Unix X-Window apps to DOS DV/X are straight
> forward.  I can get very tedious converting Unix to DOS 8.3 file
> names or if you have to write DESQview API calls to replace Unix
> multitasking functions such as fork().
> 
> With the decline of DOS applications, it makes more sense to work
> DOS apps from Unix or Linux rather than porting major X apps to
> DOS DV/X.
> 
> See for DV/X details:
> 
>      URL=http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bmm/dvx.html
> 
> For a copy of DV/X:
> 
>      URL=http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html
Appreciate the links. Looks like it deserves more time than I have at
the moment. However, why cant a batch program perform the tedeious
conversion?

I find the whole idea intreguing. That you can dos loaded and running,
and if that works, load QEMM, or use a batch call with the necessary
changes.. but then call
netscape 3.0? One of the reasons I'm interested is that I already get
notes that
the 4.7 I'm using right now (via COREL debian 2.2.16) is so ancient that
some pages
ask me to update it. But- when I try that, I see that that Nescape 7,
the recommended update, needs other dependancies I dont have.

I been down that road before, the app tells me I need GLIB2... and when
I get that, it tells me that I need GCC... and on down the dependancy
garden path to...

No wonder they sell new Linux install CDs with all the packages selected
that run on a give set of 'dependancies'...

One of the reasons I liked dos, was that if I downloaded a dos program,
and it didnt run, I just blew it off and maybe tried something else.
Nothing ever messed around with CONFIG.SYS in such a way I could not
undo it.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                           

From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

   Well, my message didn't make it through before because...

> Please edit out the PC-DOS graphics characters.  They make it look too
> much like asian spam.

   ...so here we go again. :-)


> If you still have Windows installed, you might be able to get rid of it
> by right-clicking on the Recycle Bin and clicking Properties, selecting
> "Configure drives independently" then tick the "Do not move files to the
> Recycle Bin" box on the tab corresponding to the partition in question.

   I did that (even though I never delete anything on that partition when
I'm in Windows), and then when I also did...

> The easiest way to correct this problem is to run MS ScanDisk;

   It gave me the option of deleting the recycled directory. :-) I did
that, and my problem was resolved.


> Could you tell us more about 'this computer' (CPU, mainboard, BIOS,
> memory, add-on cards, etc.)?

   Uh, I can try. :-) The CPU is a Celeron 466MHz, my system-board is
"PC100 slot 1/socket 370 M741lmrt", AMIBIOS, memory is 64Mb,
sound-cards,etc. are built-in to the system-board.


> What is the GREEN command in your AUTOEXEC?

   It's just a little pascal program that sets my text-colour to green.
Unfortunately, as soon as I use an app (like the editor) it reverts to
white again. I've still not yet found out how to permanently set it to
green.


> Please try (1) with HIMEM.SYS instead of EMM386; (2) with EMM386, but
> without NWCDEX.

   Using HIMEM.SYS worked, but there's still one bug. I can swap sessions
okay with multiple editors open, but if I am logged on and swap from that
session it hangs up the modem. :-( If I can sort out my memory shortage
though then it's not a problem.


> Could you redirect the output of MEM /A to a file (MEM /A > MEM.LST) and
> post it to the list?

   Asian-spam looking stuff deleted. :-)

   Address    Name         Size                Type
    0:0000  --------   A0000h, 655,360  ------------- RAM -----
    0:0000  --------     400h,   1,024  Interrupt vectors
   40:0000  --------     100h,     256  ROM BIOS data area
   50:0000       DOS     200h,     512  DOS data area
   70:0000      BIOS     900h,   2,304  Device drivers
   70:0023  CON                          System device driver
   70:0035  AUX                          System device driver
   70:0047  PRN                          System device driver
   70:0059  CLOCK$                       System device driver
   70:006B  COM1                         System device driver
   70:007D  COM2                         System device driver
   70:008F  COM3                         System device driver
   70:00A1  COM4                         System device driver
   70:00C7  LPT1                         System device driver
   70:00D9  LPT2                         System device driver
   70:00EB  LPT3                         System device driver
   70:016E     A:-F:                     System device driver
  100:0000       DOS    1400h,   5,120  System
  100:0048  NUL                          System device driver
  100:00CC       DOS     10Fh,     271   HANDLES=3D, FCBS=3D  5 total blocks
  240:0000       DOS    6B30h,  27,440  System
  242:0000       DOS      A5h,     165   HANDLES=, FCBS= 3 total blocks
  24F:0000  EMMQXXX0     2F0h,     752   DEVICE  installed device driver
  27F:0000  DPMSXXX0     630h,   1,584   DEVICE = installed device driver
  2E3:0000  SETVERXX     1F0h,     496   DEVICE = installed device driver =B3
  303:0000  MSCD000     5240h,  21,056   DEVICE = installed device driver =B3
  828:0000       DOS     98Ch,   2,444   HANDLES=, FCBS=  46 total blocks =B3
  8F3:0000   COMMAND     1F0h,     496  Program
  912:0000   COMMAND     210h,     528  Environment
  933:0000   TASKMGR     140h,     320  Data
  947:0000    NWCDEX      E0h,     224  Environment
  955:0000    NWCDEX    1C50h,   7,248  Program
  B1A:0000   TASKMGR      E0h,     224  Environment
  B28:0000   TASKMGR     2A0h,     672  Program
  B52:0000   COMMAND     140h,     320  Data
  B66:0000    BITCOM      E0h,     224  Environment
  B74:0000    BITCOM   49C10h, 302,096  Program
 5535:0000   COMMAND      E0h,     224  Data
 5543:0000   COMMAND     1F0h,     496  Program
 5562:0000   COMMAND     210h,     528  Environment
 5583:0000       MEM      E0h,     224  Environment
 5591:0000       MEM   15C20h,  89,120  Program
 6B53:0000  --------   346C0h, 214,720  FREE
 9FBF:0000       DOS   28410h, 164,880  System
 9FC0:0000  --------     400h,   1,024  Extended ROM BIOS data area
 C000:0000  --------    8000h,  32,768  ------------- ROM -----
 C800:0000  --------   24000h, 147,456  ---------- Upper RAM --
 C800:0000    EMM386     340h,     832  XMS Upper Memory Block
 C834:0000       DOS     D50h,   3,408  System
 C909:0000   NWCACHE    15C0h,   5,568  XMS Upper Memory Block
 CA65:0000   NWCACHE    4010h,  16,400  XMS Upper Memory Block
 CE66:0000  DRMOUSE     1990h,   6,544  Program
 CFFF:0000   TASKMGR    3960h,  14,688  XMS Upper Memory Block
 D395:0000   COMMAND    2090h,   8,336  Data
 D59E:0000  --------   16620h,  91,680  FREE
 EC00:0000  --------    4000h,  16,384  ------------- ROM -----
 F800:0000  --------    1000h,   4,096  ---------- Shadow ROM -
 FFFF:00E0   COMMAND    2080h,   8,320  Program
 FFFF:2240       DOS     F70h,   3,952  DOS BIOS code
 FFFF:31B0       DOS    7280h,  29,312  DOS kernel code
 FFFF:A430       DOS    1F2Ch,   7,980   BUFFERS=  15 disk buffers
 FFFF:C35C  --------     D37h,   3,383  FREE
 FFFF:EE96     SHARE    115Ah,   4,442  Program

 Memory Type             Total Bytes ( Kbytes  )  Available For Programs
 Conventional             654,336 (    639K )         304,064 (    297K )
 Upper                    147,456 (    144K )          91,680 (     90K )
 High                      65,520 (     64K )           3,383 (      3K )
 Extended              57,606,144 ( 56,256K )               0 (      0K )
 Extended via XMS            --------              48,076,800 ( 46,950K )
 Largest executable program:  304,048 ( 297K )
 Total Free DOS memory:       395,744 ( 386K )


   This looks very handy. :-) This says I have 46Mb available via XMS -
how do I make the programs use that? Also, for something that terminates
without staying resident, how would I find out how much memory it is
using?


> Please tell us more about your system configuration.

   Like? I'm not really into the technical side, so if you want to find
something out you need to tell me what commands to run or where I'm
looking. e.g. I had never used the mem command until just now.


> There is at least a few experienced TASKMGR users on the list, and I
> hope you'll finally get multitasking to work.

   It's working okay now, other than the hanging up the modem issue. I had
it running on an older computer (might've also been an older version), so
it's frustrating that when I "upgrade" it's not working properly anymore
(however, I encounter this all the time at work - every single "upgrade"
we have ever had has made life more difficult in fact).


> Remember, as far as anything running in *any* DOS is concerned, you
> hsave no more than 640k of RAM (768 if you play certain games).

   I didn't think that would be an issue, but having done "mem /a" now, I
can see that I've already used up half my (640k) memory. I guess I need to
do some fine-tuning of my memory usage?


> Well, you should move any files you need to another directory, then
> remove the hidden attribute (use the attrib command) and then remove the
> directory.

   I went into the recycled directory and did "attrib -h *.*", but it
didn't find anything. I then went back to the root directory and did
"attrib -h recycled" and it tells me "file not found".
   So, I wasn't able to clear it in DOS, but the Windows approach worked.

   Is there a DOS utility I can run which'll make sure I don't have any
LFN's hanging around on the disk? I want to keep it clean so that I can
run delwatch/diskopt on it.


thanks,
   DONALD.

E-mail               - donaldp@au.mensa.org
BIG DON's Home-page  - http://jedi.apana.org.au/~jims_son
Pedder Passer Rating - http://jedi.apana.org.au/~jims_son/PPR
AusNFL mailing-list  - http://jedi.apana.org.au/mailman/listinfo/ausnfl

"What I always wanted is to be accepted, not understood" - MAN RAY
------- End of forwarded message -------


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
              

From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

> but I always had text editors that could handle multiple files.
> What happens when you try that?

   I'm using the DR-DOS editor - that can only handle one file at a time,
right??

dp.



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                          

From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

> Leonard's statement that "anything running in any DOS" can only
> use 640k, is not true of course, it is only true for some applications.

   So what do I need to do to make use of "beyond 640k"?


> But as a FreePas user, you would already know this.

   You over-estimate the size of my programs. :-)


dp.



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                               

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 29 Nov 2003 at 14:11, DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> > Could you tell us more about 'this computer' (CPU, mainboard, BIOS,
> > memory, add-on cards, etc.)?
> 
>    Uh, I can try. :-) The CPU is a Celeron 466MHz, my system-board is
> "PC100 slot 1/socket 370 M741lmrt", AMIBIOS, memory is 64Mb,
> sound-cards,etc. are built-in to the system-board.
> 
> 
> > What is the GREEN command in your AUTOEXEC?
> 
>    It's just a little pascal program that sets my text-colour to green.
> Unfortunately, as soon as I use an app (like the editor) it reverts to
> white again. I've still not yet found out how to permanently set it to
> green.

Only way I've found of doing that sort of thing is 
to install 4dos to replace COMMAND.COM.

It has a lot of other advantages, as well, such as 
using a lot less conventional RAM.

check it out at http://www.jpsoft.com
 
>  Memory Type             Total Bytes ( Kbytes  )  Available For Programs
>  Conventional             654,336 (    639K )         304,064 (    297K )
>  Upper                    147,456 (    144K )          91,680 (     90K )
>  High                      65,520 (     64K )           3,383 (      3K )
>  Extended              57,606,144 ( 56,256K )               0 (      0K )
>  Extended via XMS            --------              48,076,800 ( 46,950K )
>  Largest executable program:  304,048 ( 297K )
>  Total Free DOS memory:       395,744 ( 386K )
> 
> 
>    This looks very handy. :-) This says I have 46Mb available via XMS -
> how do I make the programs use that? 

You don't. Unless they are written to use it, they 
*can't*. If they are written to use it, then they 
will be option settings of command line switchjes to 
tell them to use it.

> Also, for something that terminates without
> staying resident, how would I find out how much
> memory it is using?

With difficulty. 

> > Please tell us more about your system configuration.
> 
>    Like? I'm not really into the technical side, so if you want to find
> something out you need to tell me what commands to run or where I'm
> looking. e.g. I had never used the mem command until just now.

Well, that's one of the problems. Working with DOS 
at this level is *inherently* "technical".
 

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                    

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 29 Nov 2003 at 18:31, DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> > Leonard's statement that "anything running in any DOS" can only
> > use 640k, is not true of course, it is only true for some applications.
> 
>    So what do I need to do to make use of "beyond 640k"?

Other than using EMM/QEMM and the devicehigh and 
loadhigh commands to make sure that drivers get 
loaded into "upper" ram (unused areas betweem 640k 
and the 1 meg limit, there's not much you can do if 
the programs aren't written to use it.

Desqview or Taskmgr effectively create separate 
"640k" (minus drivers)areas for each task. 

BTW, your modem is probably hanging up because the 
DTR signal is going away when you switch to another 
task.

With DV, you can configure a task so it has 
exclusive access to a particular com port. Not sure 
how you do that with Taskmgr. Or even if you can.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Day Brown repsonds:

> Nope. What I see is:
> %ascend%
> then it asks for the system administrator password.

A Traceroute to your mail server (mail.hypertech.net) indicates
it's connected via AT&T.  A local ISP may provided it own modems
for customers to use it's connection to a Tier 1 ISP like AT&T.
Other ISPs like AOL, Earthlink and MSN use the points of presence
(POPS) of one or more Tier 1 providers such as UUnet(MCI),
Sprint, and AT&T.

> > They don't advertise for individual accounts in the US, but you
> > can get them starting at $7.95, now under the MCI brand.  Details
> > at:  URL=https://customercenter.mci.com/
> That's encouraging, however I live in a rural area of the Ozarks.
> There are three local ISP choices, no other options.

The sell network connections, no warm fuzzy home page.  The above
is customer service.  An overview of the network can be found at
their global site, including the dialup numbers in Bentonville,
Fayetteville, Fort Smith and Harrison:
URL=http://global.mci.com/about/network/pops/

Regarding DESQview/X:

> . . .. Looks like it deserves more time than I have at
> the moment. However, why cant a batch program perform the tedeious
> conversion?

More time than anyone has.  There is a unix2dvx.exe utility that
replaces Unix standard X filenames with the DOS standard X names.
It's the filenames that are unique to an application that can
drive you crazy.  Names will automatically be truncated to DOS
8.3.  This is fine when the result in a unique name, otherwise
you have to think up new names and go renaming everything
everywhere.

-- Gary Welles



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                            

From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net>

Another possibility might be to install zipslack on a dos box and run the
linux.bat file to start it up.  Then after you have root assigned a
password and have a second user account, run the pppsetup script.  You'll
find pppsetup can handle all of the more modern login protocols if
necessary.  Never give out sysadmin passwords either, at most password of
the second user account you created and have logged into before you run
ppp-go -d.  By the way, pppsetup has to run to successful completion
before ppp-go -d is created.





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                        

From: John Elliott <jce@seasip.demon.co.uk>

:    It's just a little pascal program that sets my text-colour to green.
: Unfortunately, as soon as I use an app (like the editor) it reverts to
: white again. I've still not yet found out how to permanently set it to
: green.

  Here's one way to do it. In the AUTOEXEC:

PROMPT $x$p$g
SET PEXEC=C:\full\path\to\GREEN.EXE

  and that way it'll get run each time the prompt appears. 

--
John Elliott


--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:11:12 +1100 (EST), DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> Uh, I can try. :-) The CPU is a Celeron 466MHz, my system-board is
> "PC100 slot 1/socket 370 M741lmrt", AMIBIOS, memory is 64Mb,
> sound-cards,etc. are built-in to the system-board.

Well, there is a possibility that something on your board is
incompatible with DR-DOS Multitasker (or rather with EMM386
multitasking kernel, to be precise) -- the board seems to be
newer than DR-DOS. What exactly happens if you try to enable
multitasking (DEVICE=EMM386.EXE MULTI [...]  then load TASKMGR
without /S)?

>> What is the GREEN command in your AUTOEXEC?

> It's just a little pascal program that sets my text-colour to green.
> Unfortunately, as soon as I use an app (like the editor) it reverts to
> white again. I've still not yet found out how to permanently set it to
> green.

So it is definitely harmless for TASKMGR.
Installing ANSI.SYS and inserting escape sequences for changing ink
color into your PROMPT may help a bit. Please read about ANSI and
PROMPT in DOSBOOK.

> Using HIMEM.SYS worked, but there's still one bug. I can swap sessions
> okay with multiple editors open, but if I am logged on and swap from that
> session it hangs up the modem. :-( If I can sort out my memory shortage
> though then it's not a problem.
ÑX:!
This huge BITCOM program is responsible for your connection, right?
It is loaded in one of the tasks and when you switch this task out,
it stops running and no longer controls your modem. If it was loaded
before TASKMGR, it would (possibly) work better. Anyway, due to its
size, it would be rather inconvenient. And if BITCOM is unaware of
task switchers, you could experience crashes when switching tasks
or trying to access modem from a few tasks simultaneously. (This is
in no way specific to DR-DOS Task Switcher, it is due to the way
that DOS task switchers work in general -- MS-DOS 5.0 DOSShell
would probably behave quite similarly.)

[...]

> Largest executable program:  304,048 ( 297K )
> Total Free DOS memory:       395,744 ( 386K )

> This looks very handy. :-) This says I have 46Mb available via XMS -
> how do I make the programs use that?

The programs that run in (8086-compatible) Real Mode of CPU can
use extended memory only as a swap space (to move some data/code
back and forth between lower 640 Kb and extended memory), but of
course only if given program has such a feature built-in.

There are also programs which run in Protected Mode (either 16-bit,
on 80286 and above, or 32-bit, on 80386 and above), which can use
all memory directly. But they are different programs.

For example, if you have some Turbo Pascal source which doesn't
mess with hardware and low-level stuff (no ASM insertions, direct
access to BIOS, etc.), it should compile successfully under both
Borland's TP and FreePascal. In the first case, you get a Real Mode
executable program which can use directly only the low 640 Kb, in
the second -- a 32-bit Protected Mode executable which runs on
80386 and above only, but can use directly all 46 Mb of your free
extended memory.

> Also, for something that terminates
> without staying resident, how would I find out how much memory it is
> using?

Difficult. Some information about minimum memory requirements is
stored in EXE file header, but the program may need to allocate some
memory after it is loaded.

> Like? I'm not really into the technical side, so if you want to find
> something out you need to tell me what commands to run or where I'm
> looking. e.g. I had never used the mem command until just now.

Nothing very unusual. You can probably eliminate SETVER, find
a smaller CD-ROM driver (try, e.g., Acer/BenQ VIDE-CDD.SYS) or at
least try to load them high (HIDEVICE=... or DEVICEHIGH=...), replace
DRMOUSE with CTMOUSE (smaller and better), but it won't give you much
more conventional memory, because BITCOM is such a huge moster.

> Is there a DOS utility I can run which'll make sure I don't have any
> LFN's hanging around on the disk? I want to keep it clean so that I can
> run delwatch/diskopt on it.

There is something called SULFNBK (or similar) in Windows 9x, but
I don't remember details now. If I need to have DOS and Windows on
the same machine, I keep them on separate primary partitions.
DOS partition is hidden when Windows run and no LFNs are stored.

> I'm using the DR-DOS editor - that can only handle one file at a time,
> right??

Right.

Hope this helps,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                        

From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

> What exactly happens if you try to enable multitasking
> (DEVICE=EMM386.EXE MULTI [...] then load TASKMGR without /S)?

   I haven't tried that - I'll give it a go tonight. I'm just used to the
task-switcher, so maybe this is a better way to go.


> Please read about ANSI and PROMPT in DOSBOOK.

   I've tried to find it before, but couldn't see what I was looking for.
Maybe it was a bit obscure? I'll have another look.


> This huge BITCOM program is responsible for your connection, right?

   Yes (I didn't realise it was huge until now). Even my WinModem works
okay when I use it (i.e. don't need the Win drivers). :-)


> If it was loaded before TASKMGR, it would (possibly) work better.

   Could give that a try.


> trying to access modem from a few tasks simultaneously. (This is in no
> way specific to DR-DOS Task Switcher, it is due to the way that DOS task
> switchers work in general -- MS-DOS 5.0 DOSShell would probably behave
> quite similarly.)

   Yes, I have found that once the modem gets used by a particular
session, then weird things happen when you try to use it from another
session, even after it's been hung-up. To use it okay from another session
you have to kill the original session it was running in.


> The programs that run in (8086-compatible) Real Mode of CPU can use
> extended memory only as a swap space (to move some data/code back and
> forth between lower 640 Kb and extended memory), but of course only if
> given program has such a feature built-in.

   Other than bitcom and DR-DOS stuff (e.g. the editor), the only programs
I'm running are ones I've written myself. How do I build that in? (perhaps
that's a question for the FPC list)


> There are also programs which run in Protected Mode (either 16-bit, on
> 80286 and above, or 32-bit, on 80386 and above), which can use all
> memory directly. But they are different programs.

   I've never written programs that directly access memory. I just write
the high-level code and let the OS take care of the particulars (that's
what it's for after all).

   I seem to remember a few DR-DOS sources were made available a while
back - was the editor one of them?


> For example, if you have some Turbo Pascal source which doesn't mess
> with hardware and low-level stuff (no ASM insertions, direct access to
> BIOS, etc.), it should compile successfully under both Borland's TP and
> FreePascal. In the first case, you get a Real Mode executable program
> which can use directly only the low 640 Kb, in the second -- a 32-bit
> Protected Mode executable which runs on 80386 and above only, but can
> use directly all 46 Mb of your free extended memory.

   Ah. Maybe I should take my old programs and re-compile them with FP?
:-) Doesn't solve the bitcom/editor problem though. :-( (unless the editor
source is available for me to re-compile)


> Some information about minimum memory requirements is stored in EXE file
> header,

   How do I look at that? Is there a special editor or something? If I do
a "type" on it all I see is garbage.


> Nothing very unusual. You can probably eliminate SETVER, find
> a smaller CD-ROM driver (try, e.g., Acer/BenQ VIDE-CDD.SYS) or at
> least try to load them high (HIDEVICE=... or DEVICEHIGH=...), replace
> DRMOUSE with CTMOUSE (smaller and better), but it won't give you much
> more conventional memory, because BITCOM is such a huge moster.

   How much memory would I need to run the editor? At the moment I do
"type filename|more" to look up stuff on my computer while online, but
obviously the editor is a more convenient method to use.


> There is something called SULFNBK (or similar) in Windows 9x,

   I can try that if it's safe. I try not to look at that partition at all
while in Windows, so that it doesn't go dumping stuff there on me.


> If I need to have DOS and Windows on the same machine, I keep them on
> separate primary partitions. DOS partition is hidden when Windows run
> and no LFNs are stored.

   Right. I have each OS on a separate partition, and 2 other partitions -
"data" which contains text files and Pascal programs (i.e. DOS stuff), and
"programs" which contains Windows programs and other binaries (pictures
and stuff). I keep the "data" partition visible to Windows so that I don't
have to re-boot if I want to quickly check something (and I look at it by
dropping into MS-DOS first, but still sometimes Windows is touching it for
some reason).


> SET PEXEC=C:\full\path\to\GREEN.EXE

   Now why didn't I think of that? I already have some PEXEC stuff in
there. :-)


> > This says I have 46Mb available via XMS - how do I make the programs
> > use that?
>
> You don't. Unless they are written to use it, they *can't*.

   Since I'm writing my own programs, I can. :-) The question is how?


> If they are written to use it, then they will be option settings of
> command line switchjes to tell them to use it.

   Okay, I'll look into that.


> Well, that's one of the problems. Working with DOS at this level is
> *inherently* "technical".

   I'm more software than hardware. I can explain to you how a computer
works, but if you put one in front of me to work on, it's just a disk and
a bunch of wires to me. :-) Like with cars - I can tell you about 2 stroke
vs. 4 stroke, how turbo-charging works, etc., but if my car's broken down
I wouldn't know where to start (other than looking for loose wires, which
was precisely my problem racing last week, only the loose wire wasn't in
the engine bay - it was under the back of the car at the fuel pump, and
wasn't found until after my first race :-( ).


> Desqview or Taskmgr effectively create separate "640k" (minus
> drivers)areas for each task.

   So how do I make taskmgr do that (given that it's apparently not doing
that at the moment)? Go from task-switching to multi-tasking?


thanks all,
   dp.



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                     

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 30 Nov 2003 at 12:42, DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> > What exactly happens if you try to enable multitasking
> > (DEVICE=EMM386.EXE MULTI [...] then load TASKMGR without /S)?
> 
>    I haven't tried that - I'll give it a go tonight. I'm just used to the
> task-switcher, so maybe this is a better way to go.
> 
> 
> > Please read about ANSI and PROMPT in DOSBOOK.
> 
>    I've tried to find it before, but couldn't see what I was looking for.
> Maybe it was a bit obscure? I'll have another look.

Look up ANSI.SYS
 
> > The programs that run in (8086-compatible) Real Mode of CPU can use
> > extended memory only as a swap space (to move some data/code back and
> > forth between lower 640 Kb and extended memory), but of course only if
> > given program has such a feature built-in.
> 
>    Other than bitcom and DR-DOS stuff (e.g. the editor), the only programs
> I'm running are ones I've written myself. How do I build that in? (perhaps
> that's a question for the FPC list)

Depends on the compiler. Trying looking up 
"overlays" (I know that was what Turbo Pascal used).
 
> > There are also programs which run in Protected Mode (either 16-bit, on
> > 80286 and above, or 32-bit, on 80386 and above), which can use all
> > memory directly. But they are different programs.
> 
>    I've never written programs that directly access memory. I just write
> the high-level code and let the OS take care of the particulars (that's
> what it's for after all).

In the sense he's using "directly" *all* your 
programs have done so. But only conventional RAM.
 
>    I seem to remember a few DR-DOS sources were made available a while
> back - was the editor one of them?

There are a lot of text edior sources available.
 
> > Some information about minimum memory requirements is stored in EXE file
> > header,
> 
>    How do I look at that? Is there a special editor or something? If I do
> a "type" on it all I see is garbage.

You need to look at a hex dump of it. Try DEBUG. 
Even then you'd need some reference materials to 
make sense of the header info.
 
>    How much memory would I need to run the editor? At the moment I do
> "type filename|more" to look up stuff on my computer while online, but
> obviously the editor is a more convenient method to use.

If you aren't actually *editing* the file, using an 
editor to just read the file contents is *massive* 
overkill.

Try finding a copy of LIST. It's a program for 
letting you display files and scroll them them.

Similar fiunctionality is built into 4DOS's LIST 
command.

> > > This says I have 46Mb available via XMS - how do I make the programs
> > > use that?
> >
> > You don't. Unless they are written to use it, they *can't*.
> 
>    Since I'm writing my own programs, I can. :-) The question is how?

By using whatever facilities the compiler has for 
storing data in that part of RAM, and for swapping 
code to there.

Since you'll be running in "real" mode, you can't 
directly execute code in XMS RAM. So you have to 
swap unused procedures and functions to there. Part 
of the trick with the older compilers I'm familiar 
with was making sure that you grouped code modules 
such that you didn't have ones that depended on each 
other in the same "swap group" (ie stuff that got 
swapped into the same chunk of conventional RAM). 
 
> > Well, that's one of the problems. Working with DOS at this level is
> > *inherently* "technical".
> 
>    I'm more software than hardware. I can explain to you how a computer
> works, but if you put one in front of me to work on, it's just a disk and
> a bunch of wires to me. :-) Like with cars - I can tell you about 2 stroke
> vs. 4 stroke, how turbo-charging works, etc., but if my car's broken down
> I wouldn't know where to start (other than looking for loose wires, which
> was precisely my problem racing last week, only the loose wire wasn't in
> the engine bay - it was under the back of the car at the fuel pump, and
> wasn't found until after my first race :-( ).

Technical in the sense that you have to know what 
"conventional", "upper", "high", "extended", 
"expanded", XMS, and maybe other types of RAM are. 
And how they get accessed by the CPU and programs 
(including what drivers may be required for them to 
be available).

> > Desqview or Taskmgr effectively create separate "640k" (minus
> > drivers)areas for each task.
> 
>    So how do I make taskmgr do that (given that it's apparently not doing
> that at the moment)? Go from task-switching to multi-tasking?

Dunno, I had already been using DV before I got into 
DR-DOS. 

Wasn't worth learning TaskMgr.

And I was switching to OS/2 anyway. I would have 
completed the switch ages ago except I ran into some 
snages with getting IPX, TCP/IP and the comm ports 
to all work at the same time on the OS/2 box.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
     

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 1 Dec 2003 at 17:43, da Silva, Joe wrote:

> FWIW, my ISP supports both CHAP and PAP, however I have
> to disable CHAP in Linux, otherwise login fails (IIRC, the login
> first offers CHAP, falling back to PAP if the client doesn't agree).
> I think many/most ISP's offer both CHAP and PAP in this way.
> 
> Anyway, the two most common PPP packet drivers used with
> Arachne are EPPPD (DOSPPPD) and LSPPP. Although the
> standard build of EPPPD supports only PAP, there is another
> build available (in the DOSPPPD "full distribution", which you can
> download from http://browser.arachne.cz/dos/), which supports
> CHAP. As for LSPPP, the standard build supports both CHAP
> and PAP. BTW, if anyone would like to try my _beta_ version of
> LSPPP (FIFO handling further improved), they can download it via :
> http://jds-freeware.hypermart.net/lsppp101.ZIP
> 
> So, there are at least two free, open-source PPP packet drivers
> available that support CHAP!     :-)

I'd love to find one that would co-exist with my 
Netware IPX drivers on an Intel EtherExpress 16 
card. 

The card could be changed, but it'd be a royal pain 
since the box in question is practiaclly built in to 
where it is.

And I need IPX working on it. TCP/IP would be nice, 
but IPX is *required*. <sigh>


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                     

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

Sure, you _could_ mess around with EMS or XMS to access
more memory within a DOS application, but few people bother
with this approach today. Incidentally, Arachne is one of those
applications that uses memory in this way.

These days, most large DOS applications use 32 bit protected
mode, giving them access to all the memory without any
messing around on the part of the programmer. For example,
GNU Pascal, Delphi with WDOSX, FreePascal and TMT Pascal
all produce 32 bit protected mode applications for DOS. Easy.
Need to use an array of 2 million bytes? No problem, go right
ahead! I'm sure there would be a similar situation with other
languages, such as C (eg. with GCC/DJGPP).

Donald :  I think the above answers your question ...
So what do I need to do to make use of "beyond 640k"?

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]
> Sent:	Friday, November 28, 2003 6:18 PM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	RE: several technical problems
> 
> On 28 Nov 2003 at 14:38, da Silva, Joe wrote:
> 
> > Leonard's statement that "anything running in any DOS" can only
> > use 640k, is not true of course, it is only true for some applications.
> > But as a FreePas user, you would already know this.
> 
> Sure, there's EMS, and XMS, and various other 
> tricks, including the HMA. But a program complaining 
> about being "out of memory" is almost always out of 
> conventional RAM. 
> 
> Yes, programs like QEMM can allow multiple programs 
> to have their own conventional RAM. But that max 
> limit still exists.
> 
> I've done stuff like use QRAM and included utilities 
> to get 768k of "conventional" RAM on an XT and on a 
> 286. And used QEMM with multiple tasks/sessions on 
> 386 and 486 systems. 
> 
> So I do have more than a passing familiarity with 
> what happens with DOS based software.
> 
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at krypton dot rain dot com
> 


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                 

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

FWIW, my ISP supports both CHAP and PAP, however I have
to disable CHAP in Linux, otherwise login fails (IIRC, the login
first offers CHAP, falling back to PAP if the client doesn't agree).
I think many/most ISP's offer both CHAP and PAP in this way.

Anyway, the two most common PPP packet drivers used with
Arachne are EPPPD (DOSPPPD) and LSPPP. Although the
standard build of EPPPD supports only PAP, there is another
build available (in the DOSPPPD "full distribution", which you can
download from http://browser.arachne.cz/dos/), which supports
CHAP. As for LSPPP, the standard build supports both CHAP
and PAP. BTW, if anyone would like to try my _beta_ version of
LSPPP (FIFO handling further improved), they can download it via :
http://jds-freeware.hypermart.net/lsppp101.ZIP

So, there are at least two free, open-source PPP packet drivers
available that support CHAP!     :-)

Joe.


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Gary Welles [SMTP:gary@wellesway.com]
> Sent:	Saturday, November 29, 2003 1:50 AM
> To:	OpenDos
> Subject:	Re: Arachne Web browser for DOS
> 
> Day Brown writes:
> 
> > . . . since I moved to where none of the isps will logon with dos . . .
> 
> Most dialup ISPs offer only CHAP login.  The free DOS TCP/IP
> stacks usually support LAN connections or dialin with simple
> terminal prompt login or PAP login.  Netmanage's DOS PC/TCP stack
> and dialer support all three and costs at least $100.  The stack
> offers for DR-DOS also cost extra and I expect likewise offers
> CHAP authentication.
> 
> UUnet, the first commercial ISP, continues to offer terminal
> prompt login at over 2,500 dialup points of presence world wide.
> They are Pipex in the UK and better known as WorldCom or MCI
> elsewhere.
> 
> They are a Tier 1 ISP who normally provide Internet services for
> better known ISP who use some of those same points of prescence
> with more secure CHAP login.  If you dial your present ISP with a
> terminal application, it's likely you'll see a UUnet prompt such
> as this:
> 
>      UQKT2 tnt54.nyc3.da.uu.net
> 
> 
>      Login:
> 
> They don't advertise for individual accounts in the US, but you
> can get them starting at $7.95, now under the MCI brand.  Details
> at:  URL=https://customercenter.mci.com/
> 
> 
> 
> > Is there an effort to port xwindows or some kind of API to dos so that
> > it could run the win 3/os2 versions of opera or mozilla? Maybe in on a
> > 32bit drive?
> 
> X-Window is os independent.  Although normally seen on Unixes,
> DESQview/X is a DOS X-server with DESQview providing the
> multitasking DOS lacks and a private interface to QEMM providing
> the flat 32 memory model.
> 
> DJGPP ports of Unix X-Window apps to DOS DV/X are straight
> forward.  I can get very tedious converting Unix to DOS 8.3 file
> names or if you have to write DESQview API calls to replace Unix
> multitasking functions such as fork().
> 
> With the decline of DOS applications, it makes more sense to work
> DOS apps from Unix or Linux rather than porting major X apps to
> DOS DV/X.
> 
> See for DV/X details:
> 
>      URL=http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bmm/dvx.html
> 
> For a copy of DV/X:
> 
>      URL=http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html
> 
> -- Gary Welles


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                             

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

Please see below ...

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	DONALD PEDDER [SMTP:jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au]
> Sent:	Saturday, November 29, 2003 2:11 PM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	Re: several technical problems
> 
>    Well, my message didn't make it through before because...
> 
> > Please edit out the PC-DOS graphics characters.  They make it look too
> > much like asian spam.
> 
>    ...so here we go again. :-)
> 
> 
> > If you still have Windows installed, you might be able to get rid of it
> > by right-clicking on the Recycle Bin and clicking Properties, selecting
> > "Configure drives independently" then tick the "Do not move files to the
> > Recycle Bin" box on the tab corresponding to the partition in question.
> 
>    I did that (even though I never delete anything on that partition when
> I'm in Windows), and then when I also did...
> 
	[Joe da Silva]  

	Well, if you configure a different drive/partition to hold the
	"Recycle Bin", it is safe to delete stuff from Windoze. It
	is _not_ safe to delete stuff from DR-DOS if there is any
	LFN stuff about (LFN support was never fully debugged
	unfortunately).

> > The easiest way to correct this problem is to run MS ScanDisk;
> 
>    It gave me the option of deleting the recycled directory. :-) I did
> that, and my problem was resolved.
> 
> 
> > Could you tell us more about 'this computer' (CPU, mainboard, BIOS,
> > memory, add-on cards, etc.)?
> 
>    Uh, I can try. :-) The CPU is a Celeron 466MHz, my system-board is
> "PC100 slot 1/socket 370 M741lmrt", AMIBIOS, memory is 64Mb,
> sound-cards,etc. are built-in to the system-board.
> 
> 
> > What is the GREEN command in your AUTOEXEC?
> 
>    It's just a little pascal program that sets my text-colour to green.
> Unfortunately, as soon as I use an app (like the editor) it reverts to
> white again. I've still not yet found out how to permanently set it to
> green.
> 
> 
> > Please try (1) with HIMEM.SYS instead of EMM386; (2) with EMM386, but
> > without NWCDEX.
> 
>    Using HIMEM.SYS worked, but there's still one bug. I can swap sessions
> okay with multiple editors open, but if I am logged on and swap from that
> session it hangs up the modem. :-( If I can sort out my memory shortage
> though then it's not a problem.
> 
> 
> > Could you redirect the output of MEM /A to a file (MEM /A > MEM.LST) and
> > post it to the list?
> 
>    Asian-spam looking stuff deleted. :-)
> 
>    Address    Name         Size                Type
>     0:0000  --------   A0000h, 655,360  ------------- RAM -----
>     0:0000  --------     400h,   1,024  Interrupt vectors
>    40:0000  --------     100h,     256  ROM BIOS data area
>    50:0000       DOS     200h,     512  DOS data area
>    70:0000      BIOS     900h,   2,304  Device drivers
>    70:0023  CON                          System device driver
>    70:0035  AUX                          System device driver
>    70:0047  PRN                          System device driver
>    70:0059  CLOCK$                       System device driver
>    70:006B  COM1                         System device driver
>    70:007D  COM2                         System device driver
>    70:008F  COM3                         System device driver
>    70:00A1  COM4                         System device driver
>    70:00C7  LPT1                         System device driver
>    70:00D9  LPT2                         System device driver
>    70:00EB  LPT3                         System device driver
>    70:016E     A:-F:                     System device driver
>   100:0000       DOS    1400h,   5,120  System
>   100:0048  NUL                          System device driver
>   100:00CC       DOS     10Fh,     271   HANDLES=3D, FCBS=3D  5 total
> blocks
>   240:0000       DOS    6B30h,  27,440  System
>   242:0000       DOS      A5h,     165   HANDLES=, FCBS= 3 total blocks
>   24F:0000  EMMQXXX0     2F0h,     752   DEVICE  installed device driver
>   27F:0000  DPMSXXX0     630h,   1,584   DEVICE = installed device driver
>   2E3:0000  SETVERXX     1F0h,     496   DEVICE = installed device driver
> =B3
>   303:0000  MSCD000     5240h,  21,056   DEVICE = installed device driver
> =B3
>   828:0000       DOS     98Ch,   2,444   HANDLES=, FCBS=  46 total blocks
> =B3
>   8F3:0000   COMMAND     1F0h,     496  Program
>   912:0000   COMMAND     210h,     528  Environment
>   933:0000   TASKMGR     140h,     320  Data
>   947:0000    NWCDEX      E0h,     224  Environment
>   955:0000    NWCDEX    1C50h,   7,248  Program
>   B1A:0000   TASKMGR      E0h,     224  Environment
>   B28:0000   TASKMGR     2A0h,     672  Program
>   B52:0000   COMMAND     140h,     320  Data
>   B66:0000    BITCOM      E0h,     224  Environment
>   B74:0000    BITCOM   49C10h, 302,096  Program
>  5535:0000   COMMAND      E0h,     224  Data
>  5543:0000   COMMAND     1F0h,     496  Program
>  5562:0000   COMMAND     210h,     528  Environment
>  5583:0000       MEM      E0h,     224  Environment
>  5591:0000       MEM   15C20h,  89,120  Program
>  6B53:0000  --------   346C0h, 214,720  FREE
>  9FBF:0000       DOS   28410h, 164,880  System
>  9FC0:0000  --------     400h,   1,024  Extended ROM BIOS data area
>  C000:0000  --------    8000h,  32,768  ------------- ROM -----
>  C800:0000  --------   24000h, 147,456  ---------- Upper RAM --
>  C800:0000    EMM386     340h,     832  XMS Upper Memory Block
>  C834:0000       DOS     D50h,   3,408  System
>  C909:0000   NWCACHE    15C0h,   5,568  XMS Upper Memory Block
>  CA65:0000   NWCACHE    4010h,  16,400  XMS Upper Memory Block
>  CE66:0000  DRMOUSE     1990h,   6,544  Program
>  CFFF:0000   TASKMGR    3960h,  14,688  XMS Upper Memory Block
>  D395:0000   COMMAND    2090h,   8,336  Data
>  D59E:0000  --------   16620h,  91,680  FREE
>  EC00:0000  --------    4000h,  16,384  ------------- ROM -----
>  F800:0000  --------    1000h,   4,096  ---------- Shadow ROM -
>  FFFF:00E0   COMMAND    2080h,   8,320  Program
>  FFFF:2240       DOS     F70h,   3,952  DOS BIOS code
>  FFFF:31B0       DOS    7280h,  29,312  DOS kernel code
>  FFFF:A430       DOS    1F2Ch,   7,980   BUFFERS=  15 disk buffers
>  FFFF:C35C  --------     D37h,   3,383  FREE
>  FFFF:EE96     SHARE    115Ah,   4,442  Program
> 
>  Memory Type             Total Bytes ( Kbytes  )  Available For Programs
>  Conventional             654,336 (    639K )         304,064 (    297K )
>  Upper                    147,456 (    144K )          91,680 (     90K )
>  High                      65,520 (     64K )           3,383 (      3K )
>  Extended              57,606,144 ( 56,256K )               0 (      0K )
>  Extended via XMS            --------              48,076,800 ( 46,950K )
>  Largest executable program:  304,048 ( 297K )
>  Total Free DOS memory:       395,744 ( 386K )
> 
> 
>    This looks very handy. :-) This says I have 46Mb available via XMS -
> how do I make the programs use that? Also, for something that terminates
> without staying resident, how would I find out how much memory it is
> using?
> 
	[Joe da Silva]  

	Well, as others have pointed out, that's not easy. However,
	you can find out how much they need (_before_ allocating
	extra stuff, if any), using a utility called "minload", available
	somewhere on Simtel.Net.

> > Please tell us more about your system configuration.
> 
>    Like? I'm not really into the technical side, so if you want to find
> something out you need to tell me what commands to run or where I'm
> looking. e.g. I had never used the mem command until just now.
> 
> 
> > There is at least a few experienced TASKMGR users on the list, and I
> > hope you'll finally get multitasking to work.
> 
>    It's working okay now, other than the hanging up the modem issue. I had
> it running on an older computer (might've also been an older version), so
> it's frustrating that when I "upgrade" it's not working properly anymore
> (however, I encounter this all the time at work - every single "upgrade"
> we have ever had has made life more difficult in fact).
> 
	[Joe da Silva]  

	You can use the command "AT&D0" to tell the modem
	to ignore DTR (just add "&D0" to its initialization string).
	As someone else mentioned, that's probably what's
	causing this problem for you.

> > Remember, as far as anything running in *any* DOS is concerned, you
> > hsave no more than 640k of RAM (768 if you play certain games).
> 
>    I didn't think that would be an issue, but having done "mem /a" now, I
> can see that I've already used up half my (640k) memory. I guess I need to
> do some fine-tuning of my memory usage?
> 
> 
> > Well, you should move any files you need to another directory, then
> > remove the hidden attribute (use the attrib command) and then remove the
> > directory.
> 
>    I went into the recycled directory and did "attrib -h *.*", but it
> didn't find anything. I then went back to the root directory and did
> "attrib -h recycled" and it tells me "file not found".
>    So, I wasn't able to clear it in DOS, but the Windows approach worked.
> 
>    Is there a DOS utility I can run which'll make sure I don't have any
> LFN's hanging around on the disk? I want to keep it clean so that I can
> run delwatch/diskopt on it.
> 
> 
> thanks,
>    DONALD.
> 
> E-mail               - donaldp@au.mensa.org
> BIG DON's Home-page  - http://jedi.apana.org.au/~jims_son
> Pedder Passer Rating - http://jedi.apana.org.au/~jims_son/PPR
> AusNFL mailing-list  - http://jedi.apana.org.au/mailman/listinfo/ausnfl
> 
> "What I always wanted is to be accepted, not understood" - MAN RAY
> ------- End of forwarded message -------


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                     

From: Martin C <forolinux@yahoo.com>

Hello, I'm trying to get rid of those M$ DOS in the
place  I work, in first place because If I want to use
them I have to buy windows (that is at least what
somebody told me). In second place I just don't like
m$.
I've downloaded 5 floppy disks of DR-DOS, and I'd like
to know if I can install it, or I have to pay, or
something like that.

Best regards. 

Martín.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
        

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Joe da Silva writes:

> So, there are at least two free, open-source PPP packet drivers
> available that support CHAP!     :-)

Perhaps I should have said historically.  I had gotten Arachne
working nicely from DESQview/X a few months ago until I lost the
directory and backups.  I'd not yet put it back, because I recall
needing something other than DOSPPD.  I was LSPPD and it was
using CHAP.  Tks Joe.

I CHAP login with PC/TCP's Windows dialer and VXD stack because
it's the default and is reliable.

I use terminal prompt login with Trumpet's DLL stack in Windows
3.1 Standard mode, because it's faster with the script right.

I also use terminal prompt login with PC/TCP's TSR stack for a
smaller 1st Meg memory footprint:

 Region     Area      Size      Status
   1    B7AD - B7B2   0.1K    Used (PPP16550)
   1    B7B3 - B7C3   0.2K    Used (PPPDRV)
   2    E760 - E9D0   9.7K    Used (PPP16550)  Terminal Prompt
                       10K    Used (PPP16550)  if PAP
                       19K    Used (PPP16550)  if PAP & CHAP
   2    E9D1 - EA7C   2.6K    Used (PPPDRV)
   2    EA7D - F148    27K    Used (PPPDRV)

Leonard Erickson writes:

> I'd love to find one that would co-exist with my
> Netware IPX drivers on an Intel EtherExpress 16
> card.

Also because of the smaller 1st Meg footprint, I likewise use the
IPX transport layer only for my LAN.  DV/X completes the network
with TCP/IP(X?), so I have no network outside DV/X.

   2    E32C - E464   4.8K    Used (LSL)
   2    E465 - E581   4.4K    Used (E200P)
   2    E582 - E75F   7.4K    Used (IPXODI)

PC/TCP shows the above stack being completed by:

   c:\pctcp\ODIPKT.com
   c:\nwclient\VLM.exe
   c:\pctcp\ETHDRV.exe

to add TCP/IP capabilities, with ODIPKT being the shim at the
threshold of my undestanding.

-- Gary Welles



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                     

From: "Ben A L Jemmett" <ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk>

> Well, if you configure a different drive/partition to hold the
> "Recycle Bin", it is safe to delete stuff from Windoze.

I'm afraid that's not possible; Windows keeps deleted files in a Recycle Bin
directory on the same disk, because 'deleting' a file by copying it to another
drive would be extremely slow and inconvenient.  The Bin can be turned off on
a per-drive basis though.

Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ben.jemmett/, http://www.deltasoft.com/)



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Jemmett Glover Software Development (1:2320/105.999)
                  

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:42:12 +1100 (EST), DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> Yes (I didn't realise it was huge until now). Even my WinModem works
> okay when I use it (i.e. don't need the Win drivers). :-)

WinModem under DOS? Very interesting! 
Could you tell us more about this Bitcom?

> Other than bitcom and DR-DOS stuff (e.g. the editor), the only programs
> I'm running are ones I've written myself. How do I build that in? (perhaps
> that's a question for the FPC list)

So if you compile them with appropriate compiler (in case of Pascal
sources, FPC is a good choice), they will use all memory.

> I seem to remember a few DR-DOS sources were made available a while
> back - was the editor one of them?

No. OpenDOS 7.01 "Machine-Readable Sources" package contained kernel
(IBMBIO.COM + IBMDOS.COM) and shell (COMMAND.COM) only.

> :-) Doesn't solve the bitcom/editor problem though. :-( (unless the editor
> source is available for me to re-compile)

You can use other editors. Say, FPC IDE -- multi-window and with no
memory limitation (it is a 32-bit Protected Mode program itself).

>> Some information about minimum memory requirements is stored in EXE file
>> header,

> How do I look at that? Is there a special editor or something? If I do
> a "type" on it all I see is garbage.

IIRC Norton Commander used to show a few details on EXEs with
Quick view (Ctrl+Q) command.

>> Desqview or Taskmgr effectively create separate "640k" (minus
>> drivers)areas for each task.

> So how do I make taskmgr do that (given that it's apparently not doing
> that at the moment)? Go from task-switching to multi-tasking?

It does that, just Bitcom takes much of this 640 Kb.

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
   

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 05:23:07 -0800 (PST), Martin C wrote:

> Hello, I'm trying to get rid of those M$ DOS in the
> place  I work, in first place because If I want to use
> them I have to buy windows (that is at least what
> somebody told me). In second place I just don't like
> m$.
> I've downloaded 5 floppy disks of DR-DOS, and I'd like
> to know if I can install it, or I have to pay, or
> something like that.

>From LICENSE.TXT:

| Caldera grants you a non-exclusive license to use the Software
| in source or binary form free of charge if your use of the
| Software is for the purpose of evaluating whether to purchase
| an ongoing license to the Software. The evaluation period for
| use by or on behalf of a commercial entity is limited to 90
| days; evaluation use by others is not subject to this 90 day
| limit but is still limited to a reasonable period.

So, if you don't work in a charity organization etc., you have
to pay -- visit http://www.drdos.com/

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                              

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:40:44 -0800, shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:

> I'd love to find one that would co-exist with my
> Netware IPX drivers on an Intel EtherExpress 16
> card.

> And I need IPX working on it. TCP/IP would be nice,
> but IPX is *required*. <sigh>

There should be no problems. IPX on ODI drivers are
completely independent of dial-up Packet Driver.

I have one network adapter for Internet connection (ODI driver
+ PKT2ODI) and a second one for Personal NetWare connection
to my notebook computer. It works fine.

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                       

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

2-äÅË-2003 10:19 _Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com (da Silva, Joe) wrote to
"'opendos@delorie.com'" <opendos@delorie.com>:

dSJ> However, AFAIK, only M$-DOS has inbuilt support for LBA
dSJ> and FAT-32 at this time,

     Also FreeDOS.





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
    

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

Hi Ben,

Hey, you're right. I'd never noticed these "recycled" directories
on the other drive partitions before. They all seem to hold just
a small hidden file called "desktop.ini" - strange. Actually, now
that I think about it, I think I configured W95 to _not_ save
stuff in the "recycle bin", when I installed it. Perhaps that's an
option to minimize the potential for LFN contamination, although
I don't think LFN entries would be created when a non-LFN
file is deleted, anyway.

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Ben A L Jemmett [SMTP:ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk]
> Sent:	Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:37 AM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	Re: several technical problems [memory]
> 
> > Well, if you configure a different drive/partition to hold the
> > "Recycle Bin", it is safe to delete stuff from Windoze.
> 
> I'm afraid that's not possible; Windows keeps deleted files in a Recycle
> Bin
> directory on the same disk, because 'deleting' a file by copying it to
> another
> drive would be extremely slow and inconvenient.  The Bin can be turned off
> on
> a per-drive basis though.
> 
> Regards,
> Ben A L Jemmett.
> (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ben.jemmett/, http://www.deltasoft.com/)


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                           

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

You don't need to buy Windoze for any legitimate copy
of M$-DOS. However, if you need to legitimise your copies,
you may not be able to find any stand-alone versions any
more. You may even have trouble finding W9X/ME, which
is your only (perhaps) remaining option for obtaining DOS
from M$ these days. This is probably what the "have to
buy windoze" stuff actually means.

Non-commercial use of DR-DOS is permitted, AFAIK.
Otherwise, you can buy DR-DOS 7.03 for a modest sum,
also PC-DOS 2000 should still be available from IBM.
Both these provide optimum memory for DOS app's.

However, AFAIK, only M$-DOS has inbuilt support for LBA
and FAT-32 at this time, check its "ROM DOS" derivative at :
http://www.datalight.com/product_detail.asp?p_id=19&archive=0

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Martin C [SMTP:forolinux@yahoo.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:23 AM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	DR-DOS can I use it?
> 
> Hello, I'm trying to get rid of those M$ DOS in the
> place  I work, in first place because If I want to use
> them I have to buy windows (that is at least what
> somebody told me). In second place I just don't like
> m$.
> I've downloaded 5 floppy disks of DR-DOS, and I'd like
> to know if I can install it, or I have to pay, or
> something like that.
> 
> Best regards. 
> 
> Martín.
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                     

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 1 Dec 2003 at 22:12, Michal H. Tyc wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:42:12 +1100 (EST), DONALD PEDDER wrote:
> 
> > Yes (I didn't realise it was huge until now). Even my WinModem works
> > okay when I use it (i.e. don't need the Win drivers). :-)
> 
> WinModem under DOS? Very interesting! 

By definition, if it works under DOS it's *not* a "winmodem".

Some confusion is caused by there being a *brand* named 
"Winmodem".

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                           

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 1 Dec 2003 at 5:23, Martin C wrote:

> Hello, I'm trying to get rid of those M$ DOS in the
> place  I work, in first place because If I want to use
> them I have to buy windows (that is at least what
> somebody told me).

If you've got *original* disks for the copy of MS-DOS (or PC-
DOS you are using, and have a *seperate* set for each system 
(or some sort of proof that the copy on it was otherwise 
obtained legitimately) then you can use it. 

You don't have to buy Windows unless you are using it or the 
versions of DOS that came with it (ie the dos that came with 
Win95, Win 98 or Win ME).

> In second place I just don't like m$.

Neither do I.

> I've downloaded 5 floppy disks of DR-DOS, and I'd like
> to know if I can install it, or I have to pay, or
> something like that.

If you are using it for anything other than *personal* use, 
you need to buy it. I think you can still buy 5 or 10 packs of 
licenses along with an install CD from whoever owns the rights 
currently.

I need to get a 5 pack one of these days simply because I am 
using several copies.

 

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
            

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 1 Dec 2003 at 22:29, Michal H. Tyc wrote:

> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:40:44 -0800, shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
> 
> > I'd love to find one that would co-exist with my
> > Netware IPX drivers on an Intel EtherExpress 16
> > card.
> 
> > And I need IPX working on it. TCP/IP would be nice,
> > but IPX is *required*. <sigh>
> 
> There should be no problems. IPX on ODI drivers are
> completely independent of dial-up Packet Driver.

I need both to work on the ethernet card. The *same* ethernet 
card.
 
> I have one network adapter for Internet connection (ODI driver
> + PKT2ODI) and a second one for Personal NetWare connection
> to my notebook computer. It works fine.

Well, I've got *one* ethernet card in this old 486. And I need 
to have both TCP/IP and IPX working on it. Not so much for 
Arachne, but so I can quit using dialup UUCP to fetch email 
for a couple of domains. The modem will stay for Fidonet. 

After all, I've got an 1800/256 cable connection (going to be 
3000/384 in January) so why waste the time on the phone line?

For that matter, I'd be able to support various Fidonet over 
IP protocols on that box if I can get IP working.

I need the IPX, because the files are on the Netware server, 
and it's old (3.1x) and isn't set up for IP.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                    

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 2 Dec 2003 at 10:19, da Silva, Joe wrote:

> Non-commercial use of DR-DOS is permitted, AFAIK.
> Otherwise, you can buy DR-DOS 7.03 for a modest sum,
> also PC-DOS 2000 should still be available from IBM.
> Both these provide optimum memory for DOS app's.

http://www.drdos.com lists DR-DOS at $29 per copy.
 
> However, AFAIK, only M$-DOS has inbuilt support for LBA
> and FAT-32 at this time, check its "ROM DOS" derivative at :
> http://www.datalight.com/product_detail.asp?p_id=19&archive=0

Hopefully DR-DOS will get updated. I wish the SDK was 
cheaper...

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

[Well, most of this is already out-dated and others have given
good advice, but since it was written already, here it is anyway ;-)]

On 2003-11-27, Donald Pedder wrote:

> 1. I could never get taskmgr to work properly on this computer -
> that is, until I saw someone mention "taskmgr /s", which got it
> going (this was a new option since I'd used the previous version).
> However, I am still having a problem with it.

That's strange. Assuming the posted CONFIG.SYS is actually
the CONFIG.SYS file which gets executed on boot-up, you load
EMM386.EXE *without* the MULTI=ON option, so "Vladivar",
the 32-bit Protected Mode OS core is not loaded.
Hence, no multitasking or multithreading is supported by the
system. In other words, specifying TASKMGR /S or just TASKMGR
does not make any functional difference in your case, as TASKMGR
will load as a task switcher instead of a multitasker in case
the underlaying support for multitasking is not available.

While both have a very similar user interface (the TASKMGR menu),
both modes of operation have almost nothing (even no code) in
common. The TASKMGR.EXE file is actually a multi-partite .EXE
file containing:

- a loader which gets executed when you run TASKMGR.EXE from the
  prompt and which decides which other internal modules to load
  and run depending on circumstances
- a multitasker module (consisting of a few sub-modules) 
- a taskswitcher module (consisting of a few other sub-modules)
- a Windows TASKMAN replacement application (so you can
  smoothly switch between Windows and "Vladivar" tasks even
  under Windows, otherwise Windows could only see tasks
  started while Windows was loaded already)

In multitasker mode, the actual multitasker is located in EMM386
and TASKMGR is nothing but a small menu frontend in order to
control the multitasker. It may also serve as a VxD loader.
The main advantage of this mode is true pre-emptive multitasking
(background tasks keep running on a virtual DOS machine on a
virtualized hardware unless several race conditions are met
which may force a task to be suspended until another task
has finished some operation and/or the task is switched back
into the foreground). It has also the advantage of having only
a very small visible DOS memory footprint since the menu
program is located in Extended Memory and runs in Protected Mode
as well. And finally there are very short task switching times,
you can switch between tasks many dozen times a second.

In taskswitching mode, the multitasking core in EMM386 is
neither needed nor used (in case it is still loaded). All
the taskswitching logic is provided by TASKMGR itself.
Since this mode runs in Real Mode it has a much larger visible
DOS memory footprint and you are more likely to run out of
Conventional Memory. Also, only one task can run at a time,
because the other tasks are swapped out to XMS, EMS or disk
until brought back into the foreground. Due to all the swapping
you will experience up to several seconds task switching times
on slow machines. The advantage of taskswitching mode is that
it does not require any memory managers, hence it will even
run on the oldest PC/XT, and it should only marginally interfere
with whatever setup you may have. If MS-DOS DOSSHELL works,
TASKMGR /S should work as well. They are very similar by
design, and if you fire up ViewMAX or PC/GEOS as a task under
TASKMGR you will even get a DOSSHELL-like feeling as these
graphical desktop environments will take over control of
the TASKMGR menu program and will smoothly integrate the
task switching into their GUI environment.

While the multitasker is a bit flakey on some systems, the
task switcher (which basically resembles the old DR DOS 6.0
TASKMAX) is rock-solid on most any system. If it still does
not work, this indicates some serious system configuration
problem, which will most probably also affect the general
stability of the system, not only under TASKMGR.

> I can get several sessions started, but if I try to swap sessions
> while one of them has the editor loaded, I get "exception 6", and
> the session crashes. The reason I use several sessions to start
> with is so that I can edit/reference several files at a time, so
> needless to say this problem means I still can't use taskmgr for
> what I want it for.

Your tried application of TASKMGR is a valid scenario, but
still, there must be something fishy in your setup, and I'm
quite sure it's not TASKMGR as is.

Since there really isn't much unusual stuff in your configuration
files, I suspect either GREEN or DRMOUSE to be the culprit.
So, for a first test, please check if unloading them will help.
If it does, try a newer version of DRMOUSE, that is, try a
current version of FreeDOS' CTMOUSE instead (DRMOUSE was based
on an early issue of CTMOUSE). Alternatively, try the latest
*original* mouse driver available for your mouse. In particular,
PS/2 mice can very easily crash any multitasker, if they are not
set up properly since in this case they may generate interrupts
while the corresponding interrupt handler has been swapped out,
which would lead into a crash on the next mouse interrupt...
Further, try adding a line:

STACKS=9,512

to your CONFIG.SYS (the default is 0,0 under DR-DOS, and some
drivers expect more, because there is a different default under
MS-DOS/PC DOS). If it still does not help, try to add a line
to EMM386 to exclude all upper memory. If any of this will help,
please report back and we should be able to narrow down the
problem and find a workaround.

Please also check if you have a DCONFIG.SYS or DCONFIG.* file
on your C: or other drives. I have the suspicion that the
posted CONFIG.SYS is not the actual CONFIG.SYS executed during
boot... Do you have or had a multi-OS loader like DR-DOS LOADER
installed?

> 2. I am using bitcom as my dial-up software. It has an option to
> drop back down into DOS, but several things that I try to do
> (like using the editor) tell me "insufficient memory", even
> though I have 64Mb of memory (and I ran this software okay
> when I only had a 386).

Well, from the viewpoint of DOS, there is very little difference
between a 386 and later generation machines. EMM386 will take
advantage of the virtual interrupt flag available since the
Pentium, and NWCACHE may adapt its internal memory transfer
routines for highest speed on a given target platform, but
otherwise a Pentium will be treated just as a faster 386
with more memory etc.

Most probably, the insufficient memory message you see indicates
insufficient Conventional Memory. This is, because you don't take
full advantage of DR-DOS' powerful memory management and load-high
facilities. Please post a MEM /A (for 'All') report here, so we
can learn about your current memory setup and help you optimize it.

> 3. I have a problem which is isolated to the root directory on
> one partition. I notice that Windows has touched it (despite my
> efforts to keep it clean). It has a "recycled" directory in there,
> and I'm unable to clear it out with deltree (deltree says no such
> file exists, but it's there if I do a "dir /s"). This may or may
> not be relevant.

Yes, you're not alone with this problem. This is one of Windows'
annoying habits... ;-)

Most probably Windows has created some VFAT LFN entries in this
hidden directory, and since DR-DOS (without the LONGNAME driver
loaded) does not know anything about long filenames, it cannot
clear the directory and will either not be able to touch the
files/directories (treat them as if they were password protected)
or it may leave orphanted LFN entries in the filesystem. While
you will no longer see any actual files in the directory, these
obsolete LFN entries will cause DR-DOS to see the directory as
being not empty, hence it will refuse to delete the parent
directory... Kind of a deadlock situation...

> Anyhow, when I want to use the editor in this directory I get
> "internal error 82". I also get it if a do a "type filename|more",
> however it works with just "type filename" (which is no good
> for multi-page files).

Two issues:

Well, while this will not help the underlaying problem, you do
not need MORE for paged output under DR-DOS, since TYPE and most
any other commands which can generate lenghtly outputs under
DR-DOS have always had an option for paged output. Please try:

TYPE filename /P

Further, output redirection implies the temporary creation of
a scratch file. This will be created in the current directory
unless you have set up a so called "temp directory" and set
up a "temp variable" to direct it elsewhere.
In case, you still have several Mb of free space on C:,
create an empty directory C:\TMP and add the following
to your AUTOEXEC.BAT file:

SET TEMP=c:\tmp
SET TMP=%TEMP%

After the next reboot this should fix your problems with MORE
as well as the problems with .$$$ files mentioned below.

> Ditto if I try to re-direct. For a while I was able to get around
> the editor problem by deleting the .$$$ files, but that no longer
> works. I am able to edit my files if I move them to another directory.
> Any ideas on how to clear up this directory? (I'd rather not re-format
> if it can be avoided).

No need to reformat. The easiest way to get rid of the directory
is to use Windows 9x. The best way to avoid the problem is disable
the creation of these recycle directories completely.
In case you have already deleted some of its contents under DR-DOS,
I would recommend to run SCANDISK under Windows on that drive.
This should fix the filesystem again.

In case you haven't already deleted some of the contents in
the directory, you could have loaded LONGNAME or any other
LFN provider under DR-DOS, and *then* delete the directory
and all its files.

In case, there are already orphanted LFN entries since you
deleted some of the files under plain DR-DOS (without LONGNAME)
and you don't have a working Windows 9x setup any more, you
could still delete them using a disk editor (but since this
can be very dangerous if you don't know exactly what you are
doing, I would rather not like to describe the details here
for now). It's a last resort, but still more convenient than
reformatting the drive.

Hope it helps,

 Matthias

-- 
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org

"Programs are poems for computers."



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                               

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

> Well, I've got *one* ethernet card in this old 486. And I need
> to have both TCP/IP and IPX working on it. Not so much for
> Arachne, but so I can quit using dialup UUCP to fetch email
> for a couple of domains. ...

>From the manual it looks as though NetManage PC/TCP could be
stacked up to do that:

     c:\nwclient\LSL.com
     c:\nwclient\CARDNAME.com
     c:\nwclient\IPXODI.com
     c:\pctcp\ODIPKT.com
     c:\nwclient\VLM.exe
     c:\pctcp\ETHDRV.exe

I use it's DOS POP3 and SMTP clients for more most email.

I don't know if Arachne can work with PC/TCP.  For a description
of a two card solution used for Arachne with DESQview/X see:
URL=http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bmm/dvx.html

-- Gary Welles



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                              

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Ben A L Jemmett writes:

> The Caldera WebSpyder product (based around Arachne and the NetWare stack)
> shipped with a packet driver shim for the ODI stack if memory serves -- after
> loading LSL and the MLID (possible IPXODI was required too, but since you 
load
> that anyway it'll be fine), this driver (PKT2ODI.COM I think) loaded as a
> packet driver that talked to the MLID.  This is going from hazy memories, but
> if you could find a copy of that floating around it might work.

Memory isn't much better here and WebSpyder has been removed, but
I did located the .bat file I used to unload it's stack.
Reversing it's order would stack up like so:

     c:\nwclient\LSL.com
     c:\nwclient\NCOMX.com
     c:\nwclient\NWREMOTE.com
     c:\nwclient\PKT2ODI.exe

They remain in my nwclient directory along with the relevant .cfg
file and I'd be happy to .zip them off to Leonard Erickson.

MAJOR PROBLEM: There is no DOS TCP/IP standard, so clients are
stack specific or everything is more or less rolled into one big
app like BITCOM. Thus no expectation the above stack would work
with DOS anything other than WebSypder.  He'd probably need
Novell's LAN Workplace and clients as well.

-- Gary Welles

PKT2ODI R1.00    Packet Driver to ODI Converter
Copyright (c) 1997 Caldera, Inc.  All rights reserved.

PKT2ODI [/I:hh] [/B:dd] [/U]
  /I:hh Install at int. vector hh (hex); default 0x69
  /B:dd Use MLID board dd (decimal); default 1
  /U    Remove PKT2ODI from memory

Novell/Caldera NWREMOTE Stack  v3.14 (950830)
(C) Copyright 1995 Novell, Inc.  All Rights Reserved.

Available command line options:
   NWREMOTE    -Installs the stack
   NWREMOTE S  -Shows resident stacks in memory
   NWREMOTE U  -Unloads resident stack from memory
   NWREMOTE V  -Verbose Mode: Displays NESL registrations
   NWREMOTE ?  -Displays this help screen

Novell COM1/COM2 MLID  v3.13 (950825)
(C) Copyright 1991 - 1995 Novell, Inc.  All Rights Reserved.

Available command line options:
   NCOMX    -Installs the LAN driver
   NCOMX S  -Shows resident LAN drivers in memory
   NCOMX U  -Unloads resident LAN driver from memory
   NCOMX ?  -Displays this help screen



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                   

From: "Ben A L Jemmett" <ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk>

> I'd love to find one that would co-exist with my
> Netware IPX drivers on an Intel EtherExpress 16
> card.

The Caldera WebSpyder product (based around Arachne and the NetWare stack)
shipped with a packet driver shim for the ODI stack if memory serves -- after
loading LSL and the MLID (possible IPXODI was required too, but since you load
that anyway it'll be fine), this driver (PKT2ODI.COM I think) loaded as a
packet driver that talked to the MLID.  This is going from hazy memories, but
if you could find a copy of that floating around it might work.

Just did some Googling, the only place I could find a download is part of the
WebSpyder demo disk at http://browsers.evolt.org/?dr-webspyder/2.0 -- other
hits on 'PKT2ODI' give some various configuration bits and pieces, but since
I'm a stranger to the world of packet drivers I don't know what will be
required from all of that.  Whenever I did TCP/IP on top of the ODI stack it
was with LAN Workplace!

Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ben.jemmett/, http://www.deltasoft.com/)



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Jemmett Glover Software Development (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                               

From: "Ben A L Jemmett" <ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk>

> Hopefully DR-DOS will get updated. I wish the SDK was
> cheaper...

I'm just wondering what on earth is in it that I'd want to buy it; DJGGP is
free for download, and the Interrupt List probably covers all the APIs.  It
might contain Novell's old SDKs, perhaps, for the NetWare or IP stacks.
Anybody know?

Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ben.jemmett/, http://www.deltasoft.com/)



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Jemmett Glover Software Development (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                              

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:56:38 -0800, shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:

> Well, I've got *one* ethernet card in this old 486. And I need
> to have both TCP/IP and IPX working on it. Not so much for
> Arachne, but so I can quit using dialup UUCP to fetch email
> for a couple of domains. The modem will stay for Fidonet.

This is a piece of AUTOEXEC.BAT from another machine, with single
Ethernet adapter:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
:NETWORK
CD \NWCLIENT
rem Link Support Layer
HILOAD LSL.COM
rem This is one physical network adapter, but two logical boards
HILOAD NE2000.COM
rem Packet Driver converter is bound to logical board #2
HILOAD PKT2ODI.EXE /B:2
rem IPX will automatically bind to logical board #1
HILOAD IPXODI.COM
rem Personal Netware server if needed
IF "%CONFIG%"=="PNW" HILOAD SERVER.EXE
rem Client software
VLM.EXE
NET LOGIN
CD \
RETURN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And this is from my NET.CFG:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link driver NE2000
        INT 10
        PORT 300
# Logical Board #1 for IPX -- 'Netware' frame
        FRAME Ethernet_802.2
# Logical Board #2 for Packet Driver -- 'Internet' frame
        FRAME Ethernet_II

Netware DOS Requester
# Put here whatever you need

Link Support
# We need only 2 logical boards, let's free some memory
        MAX BOARDS 2
# Packet Driver converter doesn't seem to require Stack resources
        MAX STACKS 1
# Packet Driver converter seems to need Buffer resources.
# More buffers may give you somewhat better performance
        BUFFERS 4 1600
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I got to this setup by analyzing the configuration files generated
by DR-Webspyder install and by reading NET.CFG chapter of DOSBOOK.


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:55:56 -0500 (EST), Gary Welles wrote:

> I don't know if Arachne can work with PC/TCP.

Arachne has built-in TCP/IP stack (WatTCP library) and requires
Packet Driver.

Hope this helps,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                           

From: "Ben A L Jemmett" <ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk>

> MAJOR PROBLEM: There is no DOS TCP/IP standard, so clients are
> stack specific or everything is more or less rolled into one big
> app like BITCOM. Thus no expectation the above stack would work
> with DOS anything other than WebSypder.

Ah, fair enough.  As I said, I've never used packet drivers, but I thought
they presented a standard interface at some layer below IP.

Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ben.jemmett/, http://www.deltasoft.com/)



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Jemmett Glover Software Development (1:2320/105.999)
                          

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

On 2003-11-30, Donald Pedder wrote:

>> trying to access modem from a few tasks simultaneously. (This is in
>> no way specific to DR-DOS Task Switcher, it is due to the way that
>> DOS task switchers work in general -- MS-DOS 5.0 DOSShell would
>> probably behave quite similarly.)
> 
>    Yes, I have found that once the modem gets used by a particular
> session, then weird things happen when you try to use it from another
> session, even after it's been hung-up. To use it okay from another
> session you have to kill the original session it was running in.

This is WAD and depends on the settings in %DRDOSCFG%\TASKMGR.INI.
Please have a look at the Timeout=AUTO|0|1..65534|65535 directives
of sections [COM1] [COM2] [COM3] [COM4].

If your system crashes while creating or deleting new tasks,
play with the Exec=TRUE|FALSE setting.

Hope it helps,

 Matthias

-- 
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org

"Programs are poems for computers."



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                            

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Michal Tyc writes:

> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:55:56 -0500 (EST), Gary Welles wrote:
>
> > I don't know if Arachne can work with PC/TCP.
>
> Arachne has built-in TCP/IP stack (WatTCP library) and requires
> Packet Driver.
>
> Hope this helps,

It does and the answer is no as one can't have two TCP/IP stacks,
at least not sharing the same IP address.  The reason behind the
two card, two stack fix for Arachne with DV/X:
URL=http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bmm/dvx.html

Ben Jemmet writes:

> Ah, fair enough.  As I said, I've never used packet drivers, but I thought
> they presented a standard interface at some layer below IP.

If one were to write a TCP/IP client, say FTP, with built-in
TCP/IP, it couldn't simultaneous share the packet driver with Arachne's
TCP/IP.  Arachne and an FTP client could on the other hand share
a TCP/IP stack.  MS didn't define a standard TCP/IP interface for
DOS as it did with WinSock for Windows.

-- Gary Welles




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                   

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

Yes, thanks for reminding us, that's a very good point!

There seems to be more support for this new stuff from free
DOS projects than from alternative commercial offerings.
This also reminds me of the OpenDOS Enhancement Project
that Florian told us about (http://www.drdosprojects.de/) and
even RXDOS (http://neons.times.lv/neodos/rxdos/ and
http://sourceforge.net/projects/rxdos/; both seem dormant).

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Arkady V.Belousov [SMTP:ark@belous.munic.msk.su]
> Sent:	Tuesday, December 02, 2003 5:24 PM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	RE: DR-DOS can I use it?
> 
> Hi!
> 
> 2-äÅË-2003 10:19 _Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com (da Silva, Joe) wrote to
> "'opendos@delorie.com'" <opendos@delorie.com>:
> 
> dSJ> However, AFAIK, only M$-DOS has inbuilt support for LBA
> dSJ> and FAT-32 at this time,
> 
>      Also FreeDOS.
> 
> 



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

   Okay, I finally found the code for green foreground in the help for
ANSI.SYS, but now what? I put ANSI.SYS in my config and re-booted (however
I don't see it when I do a "mem /a", unless it's under "CON" or "DOS"). I
created a file with the escape sequence in it, but when I do a "type" on
it, my text is still white.
   DOSbook isn't very precise on how to use ANSI.SYS - it says to put it
in the config, which I did, it says to edit a file with the escape
sequence and then do a "type" on it, which I did, and that's all it says,
yet I still have white text. Does this file need to be passed to ANSI.SYS
in the config or something? Confused.

thanks,
  dp.



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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 DP> From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

 DP> Okay, I finally found the code for green foreground
 DP> in the help for ANSI.SYS, but now what? I put
 DP> ANSI.SYS in my config and re-booted (however I don't
 DP> see it when I do a "mem /a", unless it's under "CON"
 DP> or "DOS").

you listed it as DEVICE=ANSI.SYS with the proper path, correct?

 DP> I created a file with the escape sequence in it,
 DP> but when I do a "type" on it, my text is still white.

what escape sequence did you use?

 DP> DOSbook isn't very precise on how to use ANSI.SYS -
 DP> it says to put it in the config, which I did, it says
 DP> to edit a file with the escape sequence and then do
 DP> a "type" on it, which I did, and that's all it says,

that's rather sad...

 DP> yet I still have white text. Does this file need to
 DP> be passed to ANSI.SYS in the config or something?
 DP> Confused.

try it this way... assuming your current prompt is $p $g...

PROMPT=$e[0;32;1m$p $g

put that in your autoexec.bat... if it is too bright, remove the ';1' 
portion... you should be able to set this manually at your prompt to find the 
sequence that you like...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                             

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 3 Dec 2003 at 19:05, DONALD PEDDER wrote:

>    Okay, I finally found the code for green foreground in the help for
> ANSI.SYS, but now what? I put ANSI.SYS in my config and re-booted (however
> I don't see it when I do a "mem /a", unless it's under "CON" or "DOS").

It should be a line along the lines of:

Device=\DRDOS7.03\ANSI.SYS

You have to give the correct path to the file.

> I
> created a file with the escape sequence in it, but when I do a "type" on
> it, my text is still white.
>    DOSbook isn't very precise on how to use ANSI.SYS - it says to put it
> in the config, which I did, it says to edit a file with the escape
> sequence and then do a "type" on it, which I did, and that's all it says,
> yet I still have white text. Does this file need to be passed to ANSI.SYS
> in the config or something? Confused.

*How* are you "typing* the file?

Also, are you certain that the editor you are using 
actually put in an escape character.

Try this instead. Change your prompt.

Assuming that it is currently the standard $p$g, try 
this:

prompt $e[0;31;1m$p$g
(note that is *zero* after the square bracket, and 
*one* before the m)


Enter that on the command line. The prompt should 
then be red letters on a black background.

If it isn't, either you mistyped it, or ANSI isn't 
properly installed.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:05:14 +1100 (EST), DONALD PEDDER wrote:

> Okay, I finally found the code for green foreground in the help for
> ANSI.SYS, but now what? I put ANSI.SYS in my config and re-booted (however
> I don't see it when I do a "mem /a", unless it's under "CON" or "DOS").

ANSI.SYS replaces CON device driver in DOS BIOS. It is shown as "CON"
and takes about 4 Kbytes. (DISPLAY.SYS is shown as CON as well, if you
load it, but it's normally larger.) Please check if you can see a 4 Kb
CON driver.

> I created a file with the escape sequence in it, but when I do a "type" on
> it, my text is still white.
> DOSbook isn't very precise on how to use ANSI.SYS - it says to put it
> in the config, which I did, it says to edit a file with the escape
> sequence and then do a "type" on it, which I did, and that's all it says,
> yet I still have white text. Does this file need to be passed to ANSI.SYS
> in the config or something? Confused.

No, you don't have to do anything else. TYPE should work.

Can you send me this text file for analysis? (to my private address,
unless you want to be called spammer again ;->) Maybe you just
mistyped the escape sequences?

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: DONALD PEDDER <jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au>

> unless you want to be called spammer again ;->)

   Yes, not very helpful that the output of technical system info gets
regarded as spam. :-(


> Maybe you just mistyped the escape sequences?

   I actually just solved it myself after a quick look around the web. It
turns out it's case-sensitive (not a very DOS-like thing to do, though I
guess it's because we're talking binaries here, not plain text).
Paradoxically (i.e. someone needs to proof-read this stuff) the doco
showed a lower-case "m", whereas the example given at the end was in
upper-case (which is what I originally had and wasn't working). It works
now that I have changed the case (although the cursor is going back to
white again after I've called an app).

   I'll get back to you guys about the other stuff later (just a few
further comments to make, for future reference), but for now know that I
have resolved all my issues. :-)

thanks,
  dp.



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 4 Dec 2003 at 10:17, da Silva, Joe wrote:

> I guess it's case sensitive because it's _not_ a DOS thing.
> AFAIK, this ANSI sequence stuff originated as a terminal
> (from the time before personal computers were available or
> at least readily available) control "language", I think from the
> DEC VT100 terminal or one of its relatives. The DOS ANSI
> driver simply emulates this, so the original terminal must
> have been case sensitive.

There were a whole *bunch* of model specific sets of 
control codes. ANSI decided that there should be a 
standard. And the DEC VT52 set was considered the 
best, but it is (or at least *was*) ANSI policy that 
standards of this sort couldn't be identical 
something already in use by a specific manufacturer 
(to avoid giving them a major advantage in the 
market.)

So the ANSI x3.64 standard (which is what ANSI.SYS 
is derived from) chanded a few things. Starting with 
requiring the ESC char to be followed by a left 
square bracket. 

VT100 uses an extension of ANSI X3.64. The PC uses 
part of it, mixed with some stuff that doesn't 
follow the standard.

There used to be a VT100.SYS driver floating around. 
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 3 Dec 2003 at 20:59, DJ Delorie wrote:

>> There used to be a VT100.SYS driver floating around. 
> 
> I used to have a VT52.SYS driver too...
> 
> Oh wait, I still do :-)

Can I have a copy?
 


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com>


> There used to be a VT100.SYS driver floating around. 

I used to have a VT52.SYS driver too...

Oh wait, I still do :-)


--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

I guess it's case sensitive because it's _not_ a DOS thing.
AFAIK, this ANSI sequence stuff originated as a terminal
(from the time before personal computers were available or
at least readily available) control "language", I think from the
DEC VT100 terminal or one of its relatives. The DOS ANSI
driver simply emulates this, so the original terminal must
have been case sensitive.

BTW, when using ANSI sequences in batch files, it may be
useful to check that the ANSI driver is actually loaded. So,
you may like to try my CHKANSI utility, available from :
http://jds-freeware.hypermart.net/

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	DONALD PEDDER [SMTP:jims_son@jedi.apana.org.au]
> Sent:	Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:51 PM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	Re: ANSI.SYS
> 
> > unless you want to be called spammer again ;->)
> 
>    Yes, not very helpful that the output of technical system info gets
> regarded as spam. :-(
> 
> 
> > Maybe you just mistyped the escape sequences?
> 
>    I actually just solved it myself after a quick look around the web. It
> turns out it's case-sensitive (not a very DOS-like thing to do, though I
> guess it's because we're talking binaries here, not plain text).
> Paradoxically (i.e. someone needs to proof-read this stuff) the doco
> showed a lower-case "m", whereas the example given at the end was in
> upper-case (which is what I originally had and wasn't working). It works
> now that I have changed the case (although the cursor is going back to
> white again after I've called an app).
> 
>    I'll get back to you guys about the other stuff later (just a few
> further comments to make, for future reference), but for now know that I
> have resolved all my issues. :-)
> 
> thanks,
>   dp.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Bud <caburnham@myexcel.com>

--=======414185B=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-49FF3D61; charset=us-ascii; 
format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

.
.
.
>It does and the answer is no as one can't have two TCP/IP stacks,
>at least not sharing the same IP address.
.
.
.
>If one were to write a TCP/IP client, say FTP, with built-in
>TCP/IP, it couldn't simultaneous share the packet driver with Arachne's
>TCP/IP.  Arachne and an FTP client could on the other hand share
>a TCP/IP stack.  MS didn't define a standard TCP/IP interface for
>DOS as it did with WinSock for Windows.

This is a very interesting conversation.  I am working on porting Arachne 
to the Datalight TCP/IP Stack, SOCKETS.  SOCKETS is a TSR TCP/IP stack and 
has a WINSOCKv2 compatible interface.

What has been said about Arachne utilizing WATTCP and the issues behind 
writing TCP/IP applications with WATTCP are true.

Hopefully, I will be able to post some new news here soon about my progress 
in porting Arachne.

Bud

--=======414185B=======--

--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

DR-DOS 7.02

I am able to get DR-DOS to function correctly on my P3.  It can see my 512MB
of ram and everything.

On my P4  I am having some problems.  It says address a20 already in use
when I load himem.sys.  Then when the system comes up I only have access to
64MB of the 512MB :(

Help?

Jacob B. Brewer
Software Engineer



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Alternatively, you might try VPAL.EXE

It lets you change any of the 16 default text mode screen colors to any
of the 262,144 hues that are possible with the vga rom bios.

I've seen the custom palette retained by text editors.
When you see the colors you want, you can save the palette, then load it
in autoexec.bat
VPAL load YOURCOLR.PAL
.zip is about 30k. freeware. can I attach it here?

THEN, there is ANSI.COM which loads at the dos prompt. (and unloads!)


--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:00:38 -0600, Jacob Brewer wrote:

> On my P4  I am having some problems.  It says address a20 already in use
> when I load himem.sys. 

It's a warning only. I get it on my (Pentium-MMX) based Toshiba notebook
as well, but HIMEM works anyway.

> Then when the system comes up I only have access to
> 64MB of the 512MB :(

DR-DOS memory managers (at least the latest official versions of them)
support up to 64 MB only. You may have to borrow Win9x HIMEM.SYS.

Hope this helps,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:11:42 -0800, Bud <caburnham@myexcel.com> wrote:

> Hopefully, I will be able to post some new news here soon about my progress
> in porting Arachne.

I think that many other people (arachne4dos AT coollist.com, 
arachne AT freelists.org) would like to hear about your work as well.

Thanks,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 4 Dec 2003 at 12:37, Day Brown wrote:

> THEN, there is ANSI.COM which loads at the dos prompt. (and unloads!)

Which is what I generally use.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 4 Dec 2003 at 9:56, DJ Delorie wrote:

> > > I used to have a VT52.SYS driver too...
> > > 
> > > Oh wait, I still do :-)
> > 
> > Can I have a copy?
> 
> I make no guarantees about how well it works on modern computers...

Who said I'd be using it on a "modern" system?

You are talking to a man who still owns 5 IBM PCs 
with the 256k motherboards and cassette ports. :-)
 
> 	title	VT-52
> ; Copyright 1989 DJ Delorie

Oh wow! Assembler code! Great. That means I can 
modify it for other stuff..


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

Thank you Michal, that is very good advice.

I used the Win98 drivers for the P3 to see the 512MB, but this trick seems
to fail on the P4 :(

The error I get with the Win 98 driver on the P4 is:
ERROR: VDISK memory allocator already installed 

note: The exact configuration runs perfectly on a P3.

Thank you in advance,
Jacob

-----Original Message-----
From: Michal H. Tyc [mailto:mht@bttr-software.de]
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:50 PM
To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: Re: DR Dos on a P4


On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:00:38 -0600, Jacob Brewer wrote:

> On my P4  I am having some problems.  It says address a20 already in use
> when I load himem.sys. 

It's a warning only. I get it on my (Pentium-MMX) based Toshiba notebook
as well, but HIMEM works anyway.

> Then when the system comes up I only have access to
> 64MB of the 512MB :(

DR-DOS memory managers (at least the latest official versions of them)
support up to 64 MB only. You may have to borrow Win9x HIMEM.SYS.

Hope this helps,

Michal


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
   

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 5 Dec 2003 at 1:36, Arkady V.Belousov wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> 4-äÅË-2003 12:37 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
> opendos@delorie.com:
> 
> DB> THEN, there is ANSI.COM which loads at the dos prompt. (and unloads!)
> 
>      URL?

It's an old PC Magazine utility. With Assembler 
source. I can attach it to an email if you want.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Martin C <forolinux@yahoo.com>

>   Few months ago, we could read on the drdos.net
> website that
> DeviceLogics went to release a new version of DRDOS
> (the version 8 if
> I well remember).
> This version was announced for the 2003 spring
> season. Winter arrive
> and there is still no news about this promised
> version.
> Does someone know something about that ?
> Did they give up the project ? If yes, is there a
> DRDOS replacement
> solution ?

And what about M$ trying to patent their FAT fs? Is
that harmful or what? What do you think about that?


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                      

From: DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com>


> Oh wow! Assembler code!

Back then, assembly was pretty much all I wrote in.  Occasionally a
random high level language, but assembler was my favorite.  At one
point I wrote a D470C color graphics terminal emulator in 100%
assembler.  It fit in a 64k rom chip ;-)

In fact, DJGPP has its own assembler just to build the stub loader,
which is 2k of really tense assembler.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 4 Dec 2003 at 19:01, Martin C wrote:

> And what about M$ trying to patent their FAT fs? Is
> that harmful or what? What do you think about that?

When did they try this?

Aside from it being iffy on several other levels, 
they *can't* patent it, because it's been more than 
a year since it was "made public" (ie they released 
the info programmers need to make use of it at low 
levels). 

So unless they filed the paperwork during that year, 
they are SOL. 


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Claude Renaud <claude.renaud@tiscali.fr>

--TkCiJpNJZmGOzZSZTpAoYxMXXgM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,

  
  Few months ago, we could read on the drdos.net website that
DeviceLogics went to release a new version of DRDOS (the version 8 if
I well remember).
This version was announced for the 2003 spring season. Winter arrive
and there is still no news about this promised version.
Does someone know something about that ?
Did they give up the project ? If yes, is there a DRDOS replacement
solution ?

-- 

Greetings,

 Claude Renaud

The Bat! v2.01.56 on Windows XP 5.1 Build  2600
Service Pack 1


--TkCiJpNJZmGOzZSZTpAoYxMXXgM
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html><body bgcolor="white">
Hi all,<br>
<br>
  <br>
  Few months ago, we could read on the drdos.net website that<br>
DeviceLogics went to release a new version of DRDOS (the version 8 if<br>
I well remember).<br>
This version was announced for the 2003 spring season. Winter arrive<br>
and there is still no news about this promised version.<br>
Does someone know something about that ?<br>
Did they give up the project ? If yes, is there a DRDOS replacement<br>
solution ?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
 Claude Renaud<br>
<br>
The Bat! v2.01.56 on Windows XP 5.1 Build  2600<br>
Service Pack 1<br>
<br>
<br>
<img src="http://img.msgtag.com/hei/mDcnssCkm/Cutqbw/tsx/of/rAepfcva.gif"></body></html>

--TkCiJpNJZmGOzZSZTpAoYxMXXgM--

--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

4-äÅË-2003 12:37 _daybrown@hypertech.net (Day Brown) wrote to
opendos@delorie.com:

DB> THEN, there is ANSI.COM which loads at the dos prompt. (and unloads!)

     URL?





--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:02:25 -0600, Jacob Brewer wrote:

> The error I get with the Win 98 driver on the P4 is:
> ERROR: VDISK memory allocator already installed

I guess that it happens only after a reboot and never after
power-up, doesn't it? Please try!

If so, that would mean that the VDISK signature at the beginning 
of HMA survives POST. Exactly like in my notebook... where I had
to write a small utility to clear HMA which has to be put in 
CONFIG.SYS before HIMEM.SYS. I'll send it to you as soon as I'm
back at home.

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Martin C <forolinux@yahoo.com>

> > And what about M$ trying to patent their FAT fs?
> Is
> > that harmful or what? What do you think about
> that?
> When did they try this?

I read about it yesterday: 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp

> Aside from it being iffy on several other levels, 
> they *can't* patent it, because it's been more than 
> a year since it was "made public" (ie they released 
> the info programmers need to make use of it at low 
> levels). 
> 
> So unless they filed the paperwork during that year,
> they are SOL. 
We are talking about m$... I think they can do
whataever they want... They have enough lawyers...

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
       

From: Veit Kannegieser <Veit.Kannegieser@gmx.de>

Here is an simple iso-9660 image to boot DR DOS 7 in 
no emulation mode (just finished memdisk release):

http://WWW.Informatik.TU-Cottbus.DE/~vk/test2/dosdemo.arj

Veit Kannegieser


--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

Oh, my first message to the list was rejected too...

Let's try again:

; CLRVDISK.COM
; Clear VDISK signature in HMA if A20 enabled at boot time,
;   which happens on some systems (as Toshiba Satellite 300CDS)
;   and causes memory manager initialization error
; Add INSTALL=CLRVDISK.COM in [D]CONFIG.SYS before the memory
;   manager; this works under DR-DOS only, as MS-DOS processes
;   INSTALL= directives too late
; Intel syntax (NASM), 80386+

  org 100h

  xor bx, bx
  mov ds, bx              ; ds = 0
  dec bx
  mov es, bx              ; es = 0FFFFh
  mov bx, 200h            ; word to compare: unused INT 80h vector
  mov di, 10h             ; offset of HMA in segment 0FFFFh
  mov ax, [bx]
  cmp ax, [es:bx + di]    ; 20-bit address wrap test
  jne clear               ; words differ, A20 enabled
  not dword [es:bx + di]  ; not sure yet, try modifying HMA
  cmp ax, [bx]
  jne done                ; 0:200h changed, so A20 is disabled
clear:
  cld
  mov cx, di              ; length = 10h words, dest = HMA start
  xor ax, ax
  rep stosw               ; clear VDISK header (if any)
done:
  ret                     ; return via INT 20h

The binary is attached in a private message.

Hope this helps,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Chris Simmonds <chris@2net.co.uk>



Point 1: you can get a US software patent on almost anything (I have one 
myself). Microsoft have one on copying data from one memory location to 
another.

Point 2: These patents all relate to the use of LFN in FAT file systems. 
Plain FAT 12 and FAT 16 file systems are not covered, so far as I can 
tell. This may explain the relicense of some manufacturers to release 
LFN compatibility code.

So, I expect all those floppy disks and Compact Flash will be 25 cents 
more expensive in the future?

Chris.

Martin C wrote:
>>>And what about M$ trying to patent their FAT fs?
>>
>>Is
>>
>>>that harmful or what? What do you think about
>>
>>that?
>>When did they try this?
> 
> 
> I read about it yesterday: 
> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp
> 



--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Bud writes:

> This is a very interesting conversation.  I am working on porting Arachne
> to the Datalight TCP/IP Stack, SOCKETS.  SOCKETS is a TSR TCP/IP stack and
> has a WINSOCKv2 compatible interface.

The MS WINSOCK standard for Windows may be familiar, but that
dosen't make it the gold standard.  Success with a WINSOCK port
may be just a step away from BSD Sockets and a port to DOS (DV/X)
or perhaps DOS emulations in Unix, Linux or Mac OS/X.

-- Gary Welles

| THE BERKELEY SOCKET LIBRARY
|
| In order for applications to communicate with each other, whether
| on the same machine or different machines across a network, the Berkeley
| Socket Interface was chosen as the means to accomplish this in the
| DESQview/X environment.
|
| The reasons for this are clear. The Berkeley Socket Interface is the
| standard which other X Window systems and UNIX systems use to communicate.
| In addition, it is network independent--in fact, a network need
| not be present on a standalone system. DESQview/X uses the Berkeley
| Socket Interface 4.3, or BSD 4.3. This release includes two different
| types of communication--stream (TCP) and datagram (UDP). DESQview/X,
| through its BSD 4.3 routines, supports both of these types.
|
| DESQview/X supplies both the include files necessary to compile an
| application that uses BSD 4.3 as well as a socket library that performs
| the low level functions.  . . .
| Since the Berkeley Socket Interface is a well-defined (and expansive)
| interface, this document does not attempt to teach a user how to use
| BSD 4.3 Sockets--there is plenty of material that does this already.



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                        

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 5 Dec 2003 at 16:15, Chris Simmonds wrote:

> 
> 
> Point 1: you can get a US software patent on almost anything (I have one 
> myself). Microsoft have one on copying data from one memory location to 
> another.
> 
> Point 2: These patents all relate to the use of LFN in FAT file systems. 
> Plain FAT 12 and FAT 16 file systems are not covered, so far as I can 
> tell. This may explain the relicense of some manufacturers to release 
> LFN compatibility code.
> 
> So, I expect all those floppy disks and Compact Flash will be 25 cents 
> more expensive in the future?

Ones that are preformatted maybe. Then again, I can use 
unformatted floppies. And Ditto for CF cards. 

Heck, I have to get around to ordering a few IDE to CF 
adapters. That way I can use CF cards as boot disks for some 
older systems.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                      

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Martin C wrote:

> And what about M$ trying to patent their FAT fs? Is
> that harmful or what? What do you think about that?
Do you perhaps remember when PAK corporation sued Phil Katz?
I'd love to see Micky try, and then succeed at getting whatever it is
they think the court can give them. Then- I wanna watch them try to
enforce it.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                               

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Please excuse my irrational exuberance over BSD Sockets.  A port
using DV/X's BSD Socket interface would allow it to share the
same network interface with DV/X.  Arachne's control over the
display hardware, would limit it's use, even in DV/X.

The following excerpt from a DV technote may explain why TCP/IP
connection may or may not always work from TASKMGR.

-- Gary Welles

| ...  As a general rule, loading non-DESQview specific network
| shells within a window is not recommended.  The reasons are that
| network shells are actually interrupt arbitrators, re-directors,
| and/or repeaters.  Depending on the shell configuration (and the
| application software) intended to run in the window, two primary
| factors must be considered.
|
| 1.   A packet may arrive for the workstation while this window
|      is not the current task.  The network must retry sending
|      the packet, causing network performance degradation (or the
|      network may timeout and drop the work-station).
|
| 2.   Only that window would be able to see the network.  Loading
|      the network shell in more than one window can also confuse
|      the network unless the shell has been specifically written
|      for this purpose.



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                              

DB>From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

DB>Do you perhaps remember when PAK corporation sued Phil Katz?
DB>I'd love to see Micky try, and then succeed at getting whatever it is
DB>they think the court can give them. Then- I wanna watch them try to
DB>enforce it.

Actually, I think it was Seaware (or something close to that)... the
folks who made ARC (the archiver) and Sealink (the BBS file transfer
protocol).  Phil changed the name of his program from PKARC to PKPAK
(although it still made *.ARC files), then came out with PKZIP.  ARC
sort of faded away after that.

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Oh, by the way, which one's Pink???


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                       

Hello Mike!

07 Dec 03 14:13, Mike Powell wrote to Day Brown:

 MP> ARC sort of faded away after that.

An implementation of ARC resides on SourceForge nowadays: http://arc.sf.net


Regards,
Gerrit

--- Msged/BSD 6.0.0
 * Origin: All carefully conceived (2:246/4020)
                                                                                                                     

From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

Thank you, that fixed my problem.  

The Win98 EMM386 (I need that for SoundBlaster) still craps out, but the Dr.
DOS EMM386 seems to run well with the win98 himem with the exception of a
warning that says it should be used by itself (EMM386 for DR.DOS only allows
up to 64MB of memory).  

I know have access to all memory!

Thank you,

Jacob

Jacob B. Brewer
Software Engineer
Oasis Gaming USA
www.oasisgamingusa.com <http://www.oasisgamingusa.com> 


-----Original Message-----
From: Michal H. Tyc [mailto:mht@bttr-software.de]
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:58 PM
To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: Re: DR Dos on a P4


Oh, my first message to the list was rejected too...

Let's try again:

; CLRVDISK.COM
; Clear VDISK signature in HMA if A20 enabled at boot time,
;   which happens on some systems (as Toshiba Satellite 300CDS)
;   and causes memory manager initialization error
; Add INSTALL=CLRVDISK.COM in [D]CONFIG.SYS before the memory
;   manager; this works under DR-DOS only, as MS-DOS processes
;   INSTALL= directives too late
; Intel syntax (NASM), 80386+

  org 100h

  xor bx, bx
  mov ds, bx              ; ds = 0
  dec bx
  mov es, bx              ; es = 0FFFFh
  mov bx, 200h            ; word to compare: unused INT 80h vector
  mov di, 10h             ; offset of HMA in segment 0FFFFh
  mov ax, [bx]
  cmp ax, [es:bx + di]    ; 20-bit address wrap test
  jne clear               ; words differ, A20 enabled
  not dword [es:bx + di]  ; not sure yet, try modifying HMA
  cmp ax, [bx]
  jne done                ; 0:200h changed, so A20 is disabled
clear:
  cld
  mov cx, di              ; length = 10h words, dest = HMA start
  xor ax, ax
  rep stosw               ; clear VDISK header (if any)
done:
  ret                     ; return via INT 20h

The binary is attached in a private message.

Hope this helps,

Michal


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                               

From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

My assembler isn't too good.  I am having problems getting the line "not
dword [es:bx + di]" to compile in MASM6.11.  I am getting a syntax error :(
Is it the same as "not [es:bx + di]"

-----Original Message-----
From: Michal H. Tyc [mailto:mht@bttr-software.de]
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:58 PM
To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: Re: DR Dos on a P4


Oh, my first message to the list was rejected too...

Let's try again:

; CLRVDISK.COM
; Clear VDISK signature in HMA if A20 enabled at boot time,
;   which happens on some systems (as Toshiba Satellite 300CDS)
;   and causes memory manager initialization error
; Add INSTALL=CLRVDISK.COM in [D]CONFIG.SYS before the memory
;   manager; this works under DR-DOS only, as MS-DOS processes
;   INSTALL= directives too late
; Intel syntax (NASM), 80386+

  org 100h

  xor bx, bx
  mov ds, bx              ; ds = 0
  dec bx
  mov es, bx              ; es = 0FFFFh
  mov bx, 200h            ; word to compare: unused INT 80h vector
  mov di, 10h             ; offset of HMA in segment 0FFFFh
  mov ax, [bx]
  cmp ax, [es:bx + di]    ; 20-bit address wrap test
  jne clear               ; words differ, A20 enabled
  not dword [es:bx + di]  ; not sure yet, try modifying HMA
  cmp ax, [bx]
  jne done                ; 0:200h changed, so A20 is disabled
clear:
  cld
  mov cx, di              ; length = 10h words, dest = HMA start
  xor ax, ax
  rep stosw               ; clear VDISK header (if any)
done:
  ret                     ; return via INT 20h

The binary is attached in a private message.

Hope this helps,

Michal


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                          

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

8-äÅË-2003 11:06 _Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com (Jacob Brewer) wrote to
"'opendos@delorie.com'" <opendos@delorie.com>:

JB> My assembler isn't too good.  I am having problems getting the line "not
JB> dword [es:bx + di]" to compile in MASM6.11.

     Replace "dword" by "dword ptr" - NASM language is different (dumber),
than language of TASM/MASM. But "not dword ptr" is a 32-bit instruction, and
you should add .386 directive to enable compile 32-bit instructions in
16-bit code.

JB> I am getting a syntax error :(
JB> Is it the same as "not [es:bx + di]"





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                           

From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

Please bear with me, this is my first pure assembler program (and hopefully
my last!)

now I am running the commands as follows:

bin\ml /AT /coff /c clrvdisk.asm
link -subsystem:console /entry:START  -out:clrvdisk.com clrvdisk.obj

and receiving the folowing output


C:\COPYOF~1>bin\ml /AT /coff /c clrvdisk.asm
Microsoft (R) Macro Assembler Version 6.11
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1981-1993.  All rights reserved.

 Assembling: clrvdisk.asm

C:\COPYOF~1>link -subsystem:console /entry:START -out:clrvdisk.com
clrvdisk.obj

Microsoft (R) Incremental Linker Version 6.00.8447
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1992-1998. All rights reserved.

LINK : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _START
clrvdisk.com : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals

Jacob B. Brewer
Software Engineer
Oasis Gaming USA
www.oasisgamingusa.com <http://www.oasisgamingusa.com> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Arkady V.Belousov [mailto:ark@belous.munic.msk.su]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 6:17 PM
To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: RE: DR Dos on a P4


Hi!

8-äÅË-2003 11:06 _Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com (Jacob Brewer) wrote to
"'opendos@delorie.com'" <opendos@delorie.com>:

JB> My assembler isn't too good.  I am having problems getting the line "not
JB> dword [es:bx + di]" to compile in MASM6.11.

     Replace "dword" by "dword ptr" - NASM language is different (dumber),
than language of TASM/MASM. But "not dword ptr" is a 32-bit instruction, and
you should add .386 directive to enable compile 32-bit instructions in
16-bit code.

JB> I am getting a syntax error :(
JB> Is it the same as "not [es:bx + di]"





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                       

+-
| MP> ARC sort of faded away after that.
|
|An implementation of ARC resides on SourceForge nowadays: http://arc.sf.net
+-[GK=>MP]
 
Thanks for that tip!  I wonder what ever happened to SEA?
 
Mike
 
##MMR 2.61(beta).  !link GK 12-07-03 21:54 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                              

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

8-äÅË-2003 16:46 _Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com (Jacob Brewer) wrote to
"'opendos@delorie.com'" <opendos@delorie.com>:

JB> Please bear with me, this is my first pure assembler program (and hopefully
JB> my last!)
JB> now I am running the commands as follows:
JB> bin\ml /AT /coff /c clrvdisk.asm
----------------^^^^
JB> link -subsystem:console /entry:START  -out:clrvdisk.com clrvdisk.obj
----------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     This should make Win32-related program, whereas clrvdisk.asm is a .com
file 16-bit for 16-bit DOS mode. I don't know option of MASM, nor MS LINK,
because myself use TASM/TLINK. Instead changing (adapring for MASM) source,
you may download (free, GPL), NASM - http://nasm.sf.net/.

JB> and receiving the folowing output
JB> C:\COPYOF~1>link -subsystem:console /entry:START -out:clrvdisk.com 
clrvdisk.obj
JB> Microsoft (R) Incremental Linker Version 6.00.8447
JB> Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1992-1998. All rights reserved.
JB> LINK : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _START
JB> clrvdisk.com : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals

     In MASM/TASM main program module should be ended by END directive with
following starting name. In source, which was present, there was no END with
following name (especially "START", as you point for linker). This is
because NASM for .COM programs assumes starting point at ORG 100h without
extra lables. Again: change source or use NASM.





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:06:36 -0600, Jacob Brewer wrote:

> My assembler isn't too good.  I am having problems getting the line "not
> dword [es:bx + di]" to compile in MASM6.11.  I am getting a syntax error :(
> Is it the same as "not [es:bx + di]"

This source is in NASM syntax, which is somewhat simplified
in comparison with MASM. In some aspects (like square brackets
around memory references) it resembles TASM in Ideal mode.
Sometimes I like NASM and sometimes I don't... nobody is perfect.

Anyway, it seems that Arkady already explained everything.

BTW, didn't you get my private message with CLRVDISK.COM attached,
or you just want to rebuild it from the source?

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                      

From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_000_01C3BE64.08119250
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-2"

Yes, and thank you I am testing with it now (So far it is very good!)  Our
current client is very paranoid (go figure in the gamin industry) and
reviews all of our source before it is fielded.  So if I am asked,  I have
to be able to rebuild all of these files (they aren't coders, but they do
have some things they look for) :(

BTW I attached the modified asm files.  I am currently downloading NASM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michal H. Tyc [mailto:mht@bttr-software.de]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:58 AM
To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: Re: DR Dos on a P4


On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:06:36 -0600, Jacob Brewer wrote:

> My assembler isn't too good.  I am having problems getting the line "not
> dword [es:bx + di]" to compile in MASM6.11.  I am getting a syntax error
:(
> Is it the same as "not [es:bx + di]"

This source is in NASM syntax, which is somewhat simplified
in comparison with MASM. In some aspects (like square brackets
around memory references) it resembles TASM in Ideal mode.
Sometimes I like NASM and sometimes I don't... nobody is perfect.

Anyway, it seems that Arkady already explained everything.

BTW, didn't you get my private message with CLRVDISK.COM attached,
or you just want to rebuild it from the source?

Michal


------_=_NextPart_000_01C3BE64.08119250
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name="CLRVDISK.asm"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="CLRVDISK.asm"

Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name="build.bat"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="build.bat"


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                     

From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

man with nasm that was really easy :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacob Brewer [mailto:Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:52 PM
To: 'opendos@delorie.com'
Subject: RE: DR Dos on a P4


Yes, and thank you I am testing with it now (So far it is very good!)  Our
current client is very paranoid (go figure in the gamin industry) and
reviews all of our source before it is fielded.  So if I am asked,  I have
to be able to rebuild all of these files (they aren't coders, but they do
have some things they look for) :(

BTW I attached the modified asm files.  I am currently downloading NASM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michal H. Tyc [mailto:mht@bttr-software.de]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:58 AM
To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: Re: DR Dos on a P4


On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:06:36 -0600, Jacob Brewer wrote:

> My assembler isn't too good.  I am having problems getting the line "not
> dword [es:bx + di]" to compile in MASM6.11.  I am getting a syntax error
:(
> Is it the same as "not [es:bx + di]"

This source is in NASM syntax, which is somewhat simplified
in comparison with MASM. In some aspects (like square brackets
around memory references) it resembles TASM in Ideal mode.
Sometimes I like NASM and sometimes I don't... nobody is perfect.

Anyway, it seems that Arkady already explained everything.

BTW, didn't you get my private message with CLRVDISK.COM attached,
or you just want to rebuild it from the source?

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                          

Hello Mike!

08 Dec 03 19:26, Mike Powell wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

 GK> |An implementation of ARC resides on SourceForge nowadays: 
 GK> http://arc.sf.net

 MP> Thanks for that tip!  I wonder what ever happened to SEA?

Well, don't know about that one, I must admit...


Regards,
Gerrit

--- Msged/BSD 6.0.0
 * Origin: We are the second generation (2:246/4020)
                        

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

On 2003-12-08, Jacob Brewer wrote:

> The Win98 EMM386 (I need that for SoundBlaster) still craps out, but
> the Dr. DOS EMM386 seems to run well with the win98 himem with the
> exception of a warning that says it should be used by itself (EMM386
> for DR.DOS only allows up to 64MB of memory).

You could try adding a /QUIET=HIMEM option to EMM386. However,
due to a minor (internally already fixed) bug in EMM386's command
line parsing, this option will not work on all configurations depending
on which internal modules get loaded by EMM386 (this depends
on the type of machine you have and the combination of configuration
switches you use).

If it does not work for you, you will get about a screenful of help info
or even corrupted screen output, and then you should remove the option
again. If it works, it will mute the warning you're seeing. In either case,
this warning is absolutely harmless.

While EMM386.EXE has an internal 32-bit optimized XMS driver, and
using this internal XMS driver results in a slightly smaller total memory
footprint and higher speed than using an external XMS driver like
HIMEM.SYS (which usually is only 16-bit code, since it will also have
to run on a 286), in this specific configuration of having more than
64 Mb of RAM, this is a minor down point in comparison to "loosing"
all the memory above 64 Mb.
Of course, the real solution is that the XMS driver in EMM386.EXE
gets extended to query newer System BIOS APIs so it would learn
there's more than 64 Mb of memory. A few other changes would be
necessary as well.
While I don't think, this receives a high priority right /now/ as few DOS
configurations /require/ more than 64 Mb of RAM, I think, it's already
on DeviceLogics' list of suggestions for possible future enhancement.

Greetings,

 Matthias

--�
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org

"Programs are poems for computers."




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
                                        

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

On 2003-12-06, Gary Welles wrote:

> The following excerpt from a DV technote may explain why TCP/IP
> connection may or may not always work from TASKMGR.
>
>> ...  As a general rule, loading non-DESQview specific network
>> shells within a window is not recommended.  The reasons are that
>> network shells are actually interrupt arbitrators, re-directors,
>> and/or repeaters.  Depending on the shell configuration (and the
>> application software) intended to run in the window, two primary
>> factors must be considered.
>>
>> 1.   A packet may arrive for the workstation while this window
>>      is not the current task.  The network must retry sending
>>      the packet, causing network performance degradation (or the
>>      network may timeout and drop the work-station).
>>
>> 2.   Only that window would be able to see the network.  Loading
>>      the network shell in more than one window can also confuse
>>      the network unless the shell has been specifically written
>>      for this purpose.

In regard to direct IPX/SPX calls issued under the task switcher,
there is a partial solution to this problem in the form of the
TASKID.COM/.MSG task identification program and the TBMI2.COM/.MSG
task buffering driver shipping with Personal Netware 1.0,
Novell DOS 7, and the "full" version of OpenDOS 7.01 or
DR-DOS 7.02/7.03.
You can get basic help on TASKID and TBMI2 in DOSBOOK if you
search for these keyboards. Somewhere, I have some extra
documents explaining all the details, but right now I could
only find the German version of one of these files, which
won't be of much help unless you'd understand German (I am
still attaching it, just in case). But, maybe, if you search
for these files as keywords in our list's archive or in Google,
this may reveal enough information in order to make good use
of them already.

In regard to packet drivers, I seem to remember, there was
a special packet driver (like PKTMUX or MUXPKT?) to address
this problem (originally for use with Windows 3.0), wasn't it?
But I have to admit, that it's eons ago, that I have used
packet drivers, so I guess, others will have much fresher
memory in regard to the details here. Anyone?


For the multitasker you may have to add a line to the [Drivers]
section of TASKMGR.INI in order to load the corresponding
virtual device driver, for example a line like:

vxd=c:\drdos.703\nwclient\vipx.386
vxd=c:\drdos.703\nwclient\vtcpip.386
vxd=c:\drdos.703\nwclient\vncomx.386

and increase the GlobalPages= values by some. (If you have
a corresponding .386 VxD driver for use under Windows 3.xx,
this will in many cases also work under the DR-DOS TASKMGR.
Just try it.)

Good luck,

 Matthias

#########################################################################

TBMI2 Benutzerhandbuch
Copyright 1990 Novell, Inc.  Alle Rechte vorbehalten

PUFFERVERWALTER FÜR PROZESSUMSCHALTUNGEN V2.0
----------------------------------------

Der Pufferverwalter für Prozeßumschaltungen V2.0 für IPX/SPX 
(TBMI2) ist ein Programm, das in Multitasking-Umgebungen 
verwendet wird, um das Umschalten zwischen 
Peer-to-peer-Anwendungsprogrammen zu gestatten. 
Die NetWare-Programmdatei TBMI2.COM sollte verwendet werden, 
wenn ein DR DOS-Anwendungsprogramm, das direkte Aufrufe an IPX 
oder SPX absetzt (das wird Peer-to-peer-Anwendung genannt), 
unter NetWare in einer Multitasking-Umgebung (wie TaskMAX) 
läuft. 

TaskMAX erlaubt das Umschalten zwischen Anwendungsprogrammen (auch 
Auslagern oder Swapping genannt). Jedes Anwendungsprogramm läuft 
in einer eigenen DR DOS-Sitzung (manchmal auch als DR DOS-Prompt 
bezeichnet) in 640 KByte Speicher. Ein Teil dieses Speichers (genannt 
globaler Speicher) enthält Treiber und TSRs wie COMMAND.COM und, 
wenn Sie NetWare verwenden, IPX.COM und NETx.COM. Der andere Teil 
des Speichers (genannt der lokale Speicher) enthält das 
Anwendungsprogramm und dessen Daten. 

TaskMAX schaltet von einem DR DOS-Anwendungsprogramm zu einem anderen 
um, indem es den Inhalt der aktuellen DR DOS-Sitzung aus dem 
konventionellen Speicher auf die Platte verlagert und dann den Inhalt 
der neuen DR DOS-Sitzung in den konventionellen Speicher lädt. 
Nur der lokale Speicher wird umgeschaltet; der globale Speicher mit 
seinen Treibern und TSRs bleibt intakt und wird mit der neuen Sitzung 
weiterverwendet. Dies bedeutet, daß es verschiedene lokale 
Speichersegmente (eins für jede DR DOS-Sitzung) gibt, während nur 
ein globales Speichersegment existiert. 

Die meisten DR DOS-Anwendungsprogramme unter NetWare mit TaskMAX 
sprechen das Netzwerk vom lokalen Speicher (wo das Programm 
liegt) aus über DR DOS-Aufrufe an die Netzwerk-Shell (NETx), die 
im globalen Speicher liegt, an. Die Shell gibt den Aufruf an IPX 
oder SPX weiter, die den Aufruf dann an das Netzwerk weitergeben. 
Dieser Typ von Anwendungsprogrammen benötigt den Pufferverwalter 
für Prozeßumschaltungen nicht, da die Weitergabe der Aufrufe vom lokalen 
zum globalen Speicher zwischen dem Anwendungsprogramm und der Shell 
auftritt.

Wenn ein Anwendungsprogramm (im lokalen Speicher), das auf IPX zugreift,
direkt mit dem Netzwerk kommunizieren möchte, setzt es einen direkten 
Aufruf an IPX oder SPX (im globalen Speicher) unter Umgehung der 
Shell ab. IPX oder SPX geben den Aufruf dann an das Netzwerk weiter. 
Wird dann von dem Anwendungsprogramm auf ein anderes umgeschaltet, 
verliert IPX oder SPX den Kontakt mit dem Programm und ist nicht 
in der Lage, die Daten des Programms zu verwenden. Dieser Typ von 
Anwendungsprogrammen benötigt den Pufferverwalter für Prozeßumschaltungen, 
wenn das Programm in einer Umgebung mit Prozeßumschaltung ablaufen 
soll. 

Mit dem Pufferverwalter für Prozeßumschaltungen ruft das Anwendungsprogramm 
(im lokalen Speicher) IPX auf. Der Aufruf wird jedoch vom 
Pufferverwalter für Prozeßumschaltungen (im globalen Speicher) abgefangen 
und an IPX oder SPX und dann an das Netzwerk weitergeleitet. 
TBMI2 verwaltet einen Puffer im globalen Speicher, um  
Aufrufe aus den verschiedenen lokalen Segmenten zu halten 
und dann diesen Puffer auf die verschiedenen Sitzungen abzubilden, 
wenn in diese umgeschaltet wird. TBMI2 (im globalen Speicher) erhält 
auch ID-Informationen von TaskMAX, so daß es erkennt, welche Sitzung 
die Aufrufe abgesetzt hat. Ohne TBMI2 kann aus dem Anwendungsprogramm 
nicht auf ein anderes ohne die Gefahr eines Fehlers umgeschaltet werden.

Es besteht keine Notwendigkeit für die Verwendung von TBMI2 
in DR DOS-Sitzungen, wenn Sie nicht zwischen Anwendungsprogrammen 
umschalten müssen. Sie brauchen TBMI2 auch dann nicht, wenn 
Ihre Anwendungsprogramme nicht direkt mit IPX kommunizieren. 
Wenn Sie nicht sicher sind, ob Ihr Anwendungsprogramm direkte 
Aufrufe an IPX absetzt, starten Sie TBMI2; es beeinflußt andere 
Operationen in keiner Weise, außer daß es ein wenig Speicher 
belegt. Nachdem das Anwendungsprogramm eine Zeit lang gelaufen ist, 
geben Sie das Kommando TBMI2 /D ein und sehen sich den Wert an, 
der mit dem Feld "Far Call Usage" verbunden ist. Dieser Wert gibt an, 
wie oft TBMI2 tatsächlich Aufrufe abgesetzt hat. Ist der Wert gleich 
Null, dann benutzt Ihr Anwendungsprogramm TBMI2 nicht; Sie können Ihr 
Anwendungsprogramm also in Zukunft ohne TBMI2 sicher laufen lassen.

HINWEIS:  Sie müssen IPX auf V3.02 aktualisieren, bevor Sie TBMI2 
verwenden können.


TBMI2.COM

Dieses Programm stellt die Datenpuffer zur Verfügung, die 
benötigt werden, um die Aufrufe eines in einer DR DOS-Sitzung 
laufenden Anwendungsprogrammes an IPX und SPX zu virtualisieren. 
Da diese Puffer angelegt werden müssen, bevor TaskMAX startet, muß 
TBMI2 vor TaskMAX aufgerufen werden.

Es gibt folgende Kommandozeilenparameter:

   /? oder /H     Anzeigen von Hilfe- oder Benutzungsinformation.

   /C=<dateiname> Laden von TBMI2 unter Verwendung dieser 
                  Konfigurationsdatei.
                  Geben Sie z.B. "TBMI2 /C=TBMI2.CFG" 
                  auf der Kommandozeile ein. 

   /D             Anzeigen von Diagnoseinformationen und 
                  aktuellen Belegungsgrenzen.

   /I             Anzeigen von Versionsinformationen.

   /U             Entfernen von TBMI2 aus dem Speicher nach 
                  Beendigung von Windows.

Dieses Programm liest Konfigurations-Informationen aus einer 
Konfigurationsdatei im aktuellen Verzeichnis. In jeder Zeile 
der Konfigurationsdatei steht genau ein Parameter. Der Name der 
Datei ist standardmäßig NET.CFG; ein anderer Name kann mit dem 
Parameter /C in der Kommandozeile angegeben werden. 

Es gibt folgende Parameter in der Konfigurationsdatei:

INT 64      Ist ähnlich zum Parameter der IPX-Konfiguration.
            Gibt an, daß TBMI2 Interrupt-64h-Aufrufe an IPX 
            und SPX unterstützen soll. Sollte entweder auf 
            ON oder OFF gesetzt werden. Geben Sie z.B. die 
            Zeile "INT 64 = ON" in die Konfigurationsdatei 
            ein. Der Standardwert ist ON für maximale 
            Kompatibilität. 

INT 7A      Ist ähnlich zum Parameter der IPX-Konfiguration.
            Gibt an, daß TBMI2 Interrupt-7Ah-Aufrufe an IPX 
            und SPX unterstützen soll. Sollte entweder auf 
            ON oder OFF gesetzt werden. Geben Sie z.B. die 
            Zeile "INT 7A = ON" in die Konfigurationsdatei 
            ein. Der Standardwert ist ON für maximale 
            Kompatibilität. 

ECB COUNT   Gibt an, wie viele nondata event control 
            blocks (ECBs) für die Benutzung durch DR DOS- 
            Programme, die Virtualisierung benötigen, 
            belegt werden. Diese ECBs gelten für die 
            meisten AES-Ereignisse. Wenn TBMI2 keine 
            weiteren nondata ECBs verfügbar hat, können 
            data ECBs belegt und verwendet werden. 
            Wenn keine ECBs aus der Menge der in TBMI2 
            angelegten ECBs belegt werden können, tritt 
            eine Fehlerbedingung ein, die einen Endekode 
            von FEh (oder -2) zurückliefert.

            Der kleinste mögliche Wert für diesen Parameter 
            ist 10, der größte ist 255 und der Standardwert 
            ist 20. Geben Sie z.B. die Zeile "ECB COUNT = 20" 
            in die Konfigurationsdatei ein. Jeder angelegte 
            ECB belegt 52 Bytes Speicher; die 20 Standard-ECBs 
            benötigen also 1040 Bytes. Die maximale Anzahl 
            hängt auch vom verfügbaren Speicher ab. Die 
            Gesamtgröße aller ECBs muß kleiner als 64 KB sein, 
            wodurch die Anzahl der ECBs normalerweise auf unter 
            255 beschränkt wird. Verwenden Sie den 
            Kommandozeilenparameter /D, um sich die aktuellen 
            Werte anzusehen.

DATA ECB 
COUNT       Gibt an, wie viele data ECBs für die 
            Benutzung durch DR DOS-Programme, die 
            Virtualisierung benötigen, belegt werden. 
            Diese ECBs gelten für die meisten IPX- und 
            SPX-Sende-und-Empfangs-Pakete. Wenn ein nondata 
            ECB angefordert wird, und keiner zur Verfügung 
            steht, wird ein data ECB verwendet. Wenn keine 
            ECBs aus der Menge der in TBMI2 angelegten ECBs 
            belegt werden können, tritt eine Fehlerbedingung 
            ein, die einen Endekode von FEh (oder -2) 
            zurückliefert.

            Der kleinste mögliche Wert für diesen Parameter 
            ist 10 und der Standardwert ist 60. Das theoretische 
            Maximum ist 255, aber die praktische Grenze liegt 
            bei 89. Geben Sie z.B. die Zeile "DATA ECB COUNT = 60" 
            in die Konfigurationsdatei ein. Jeder angelegte 
            data ECB belegt 628 Bytes Speicher; die 60 Standard-ECBs 
            benötigen also 37680 Bytes. Die maximale Anzahl 
            hängt auch vom verfügbaren Speicher ab. Die 
            Gesamtgröße aller ECBs muß kleiner als 64 KB sein, 
            wodurch die Anzahl der ECBs normalerweise auf unter 
            255 beschränkt wird. Verwenden Sie den 
            Kommandozeilenparameter /D, um sich die aktuellen 
            Werte anzusehen.
            

Verwendung von TBMI2

Sie starten TBMI2 folgendermaßen:

1. Starten Sie TBMI2 durch Eingabe von "TBMI2" auf der 
   Kommandozeile, gefolgt von den oben erwähnten optionalen 
   Kommandozeilenparametern.

2. Starten Sie das Programm TaskMAX wie gewohnt.


Fehlerbehebung in TBMI2

Wenn Sie Probleme feststellen, während Sie TBMI2 verwenden, 
müssen Sie evtl. die TBMI2-Konfiguration auf Fehler prüfen.
Verwenden Sie den Kommandozeilenparameter /D, um sich 
Diagnose-Informationen und aktuelle Belegungsgrenzen 
anzusehen.

Prüfen Sie die mit "Max Buffers Used" verbundenen Werte, 
die angeben, wieviele Puffer benutzt werden, und "Configured 
Data ECBs", die angeben, wieviele verfügbar sind. Wenn 
die Anzahl der benutzten Puffer nahe der Anzahl der verfügbaren 
Puffer oder gleich dieser ist, sollten Sie die Anzahl der 
verfügbaren Puffer mit den Parametern ECB COUNT und DATA ECB COUNT 
in der Konfigurationsdatei erhöhen. 

Wenn der "Unavail buffer count" einmal größer als Null ist, sollten  

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                     

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

Hi Matthias, Hi all,

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:29:56 +0100, Matthias Paul wrote:

> In regard to packet drivers, I seem to remember, there was
> a special packet driver (like PKTMUX or MUXPKT?) to address
> this problem (originally for use with Windows 3.0), wasn't it?
> But I have to admit, that it's eons ago, that I have used
> packet drivers, so I guess, others will have much fresher
> memory in regard to the details here. Anyone?

This packet driver multiplexor is called PKTMUX and its
documentation says that it works with Windows 3 and with DESQView.
I tried once to use it under the DR-DOS multitasker, but without
success. Maybe someone else had better luck?

> For the multitasker you may have to add a line to the [Drivers]
> section of TASKMGR.INI in order to load the corresponding
> virtual device driver, for example a line like:

> vxd=c:\drdos.703\nwclient\vipx.386

In case it is unclear for anyone, the above virtual device driver is
for Netware IPX protocol (IPXODI.COM, included in 'full' DR-DOS
version with Personal Netware),

> vxd=c:\drdos.703\nwclient\vtcpip.386

this one is for LAN Workplace for DOS TCP/IP protocol (and isn't
included in DR-DOS),

> vxd=c:\drdos.703\nwclient\vncomx.386

and this is for NCOMX.COM serial port PPP/SLIP ODI driver (included
in DR-Webspyder).

A poor man's approach to using packet drivers in a multitasking
environment may be the '-w' switch of the packet driver program,
which I never tried.

I have a copy of PKTMUX if anyone wants to try it and cannot find
it anywhere.

Hope this helps,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                     

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

It may help to see the rest of that DV technote comment:


| Q:   Can I load my workstation network shell in a DESQview window?
|
| A:   If the network shell program has been specifically written for this
|      purpose--Novell's Network Access Server's IPX.SYS and NET3.COM, for
|      example--the answer is yes.  Some of our users report loading other
|      network shells in a DESQview window with some success.  . . .

I've experimented with "some success" using other network shells
and DESQview/X.  I would try to get the network running as
documented and then experiment with different configurations.

-- Gary Welles



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
             

If anybody is interested, there is an Open Source project at
http://www.freedos.org/

They're working on a 100% compatible MS-DOS operating system.
 
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.46
 * Origin: Joe's Computer & BBS, Crystal River, Fl. -= telnet.joe (1:275/312)
  

Andy,

> If anybody is interested, there is an Open Source project at
> http://www.freedos.org/

   Yeah, it's been around a while...


> They're working on a 100% compatible MS-DOS operating system.

   Besides other uses, it can be used with dosemu (x86/DOS Emulation) under
Linux...



Jame

--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: http://bbs.rocasa.org (1:120/546)
                  

>If anybody is interested, there is an Open Source project at
>http://www.freedos.org/
>
>They're working on a 100% compatible MS-DOS operating system.

There is also a DR-DOS enhancement project.  Although they are working
from the 7.01 code, they've gotten it as far as native FAT-32 support (i.e.
without a driver).  Unfortunately, I have lost the link.  :-(

Mike
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Cap City Online * Frankfort KY * 502/875-8938 * USR v.34+


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                                        

From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net>

That's a good thing I think.  For one thing maybe all of the software can
be made to write correctly to the screen for screen readers and speech
synthesizers.  Another worthy pursuit might be to make freedos
advantageous such that it wouldn't matter how much memory or disk space
was on a machine the operating system could use all of both if that's what
the installer needed.





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                              

From: "Robert Mergy Sr." <rmergy@yahoo.com>

--0-464525800-1073603711=:17207
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

There are operating systems that do have the ability to use an unlimited amount 
of memory and can use disk space as memory also. They call this vertual memory 
systems. DOS = Disk Operating System and is a markup language to operate a disk 
drive, but is now evolving into a language all it's own. I wonder if this is a 
good idea? I wonder if it is really a good idea that we have created so many 
computer Languages? Why didn't we just pick one and then enhance it over and 
over? Sort of allowing it to evolve into an all purpose language. This would 
have made computing so much simpler for everyone, NO?


Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> wrote:
That's a good thing I think. For one thing maybe all of the software can
be made to write correctly to the screen for screen readers and speech
synthesizers. Another worthy pursuit might be to make freedos
advantageous such that it wouldn't matter how much memory or disk space
was on a machine the operating system could use all of both if that's what
the installer needed.




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
--0-464525800-1073603711=:17207
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>There are operating systems that do have the ability to use an unlimited 
amount of memory and can use disk space as memory also. They call this vertual 
memory systems. DOS = Disk Operating System and is a markup language to operate 
a disk drive, but is now evolving into a language all it's own. I wonder if 
this is a good idea? I wonder if it is really a good idea that we have created 
so many computer Languages? Why didn't we just pick one and then enhance it 
over and over? Sort of allowing it to evolve into an all purpose language. This 
would have made computing so much simpler for everyone, NO?</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net></I></B> 
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">That's a good thing I think. For one thing 
maybe all of the software can<BR>be made to write correctly to the screen for 
screen readers and speech<BR>synthesizers. Another worthy pursuit might be to 
make freedos<BR>advantageous such that it wouldn't matter how much memory or 
disk space<BR>was on a machine the operating system could use all of both if 
that's what<BR>the installer needed.<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! Hotjobs: <a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/evt=21482/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus">Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes</a>
--0-464525800-1073603711=:17207--

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                         

From: Thomas A Webb <tawebb@earthlink.net>

Actually, that did happen. AT&T Bell Labs, rebelling aginst the 
proliferation of proprietary operating systems, developed Unix in the 
late 60s. Dos drew heavily on Unix for technology, amounting to a 
"simplistic single-user" version of Unix. There are many flavors of Unix 
around [Linux being one], and most are "source code compatible". If you 
install Linux in a form that basically provides the same capabilities as 
  DOS, it takes little mare space than MS-DOS, and runs a lot better.

I use FreeDos to manage the boot process for my distribution of Linux to 
avoid micro$oft spin on some machine bios chips. I find FreeDos to be a 
"work in process" as far as an OS is concerned, with wierd errors and 
very unfriendly error recovery. For my purpose, it performs well, but I 
wouldn't distribute it to users as an OS.

Robert Mergy Sr. wrote:
> There are operating systems that do have the ability to use an unlimited 
> amount of memory and can use disk space as memory also. They call this 
> vertual memory systems. DOS = Disk Operating System and is a markup 
> language to operate a disk drive, but is now evolving into a language 
> all it's own. I wonder if this is a good idea? I wonder if it is really 
> a good idea that we have created so many computer Languages? Why didn't 
> we just pick one and then enhance it over and over? Sort of allowing it 
> to evolve into an all purpose language. This would have made computing 
> so much simpler for everyone, NO?
> 
> 
> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
>     That's a good thing I think. For one thing maybe all of the software can
>     be made to write correctly to the screen for screen readers and speech
>     synthesizers. Another worthy pursuit might be to make freedos
>     advantageous such that it wouldn't matter how much memory or disk space
>     was on a machine the operating system could use all of both if
>     that's what
>     the installer needed.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes 
> <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/evt=21482/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus> 
> 

-- 
Thomas A Webb
http://www.ospueblo.com - Open Source and Educational Resources
http://wordwonder.com - For Readers and Thinkers




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                            

From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net>

That single selection and continuous enhancement has already happened with
an operating system and language.  It started out as ms-dos and enhanced
its way into windows '98 and started out as qbasic and ended up as
visualbasic.  Then came windows 2000.



On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Robert Mergy Sr. wrote:

> There are operating systems that do have the ability to use an unlimited 
amount of memory and can use disk space as memory also. They call this vertual 
memory systems. DOS = Disk Operating System and is a markup language to operate 
a disk drive, but is now evolving into a language all it's own. I wonder if 
this is a good idea? I wonder if it is really a good idea that we have created 
so many computer Languages? Why didn't we just pick one and then enhance it 
over and over? Sort of allowing it to evolve into an all purpose language. This 
would have made computing so much simpler for everyone, NO?
>
>
> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> wrote:
> That's a good thing I think. For one thing maybe all of the software can
> be made to write correctly to the screen for screen readers and speech
> synthesizers. Another worthy pursuit might be to make freedos
> advantageous such that it wouldn't matter how much memory or disk space
> was on a machine the operating system could use all of both if that's what
> the installer needed.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                            

From: Peter Buzza Smith <pbsmith@log.on.ca>

Robert Mergy Sr. wrote:

> DOS = Disk Operating System and is a markup language to operate a disk 
> drive...

I've never heard of an OS called a "markup language," which is a term 
usually used for formatting text (like TEX and HTML). But, yes, an OS is 
a whole new human language. All the command-line DOS utilities, taken 
together, constituted a true language. And DOS's true founder, Gary 
Kildall, had visionary ideas about what direction such a language 
could/should take. I can't say the same thing about Mr. Gates. Need we 
remind people Gates started his fortune by buying a hacked copy of CP/M 
to sell to IBM?

It is true that UNIX (and hence, Linux) also constituted a useful 
computer language. But I, personally, find a lot of UNIX conventions 
unappealing. It's like comparing French to English. Or Mandarin to 
Basque. Each language has its own benefits and flaws. One serious flaw 
of UNIX was that it was developed during an early stage of computing, 
with reference to tape drives, devices as subdirectories... and other 
rather eccentric habits. The main reason I subscribe to the OpenDOS 
newsgroup is that, for me, the old DOS was both easy to learn and also 
very *simple* to manage. One only has to play around with one of the 
current flavours of UNIX/Linux for, say, twenty minutes, before one 
realizes one isn't in Kansas anymore. UNIX makes some very simple things 
a lot more complicated!

I'm not a psychic, but if Gary Kildall was alive today, I suspect he'd 
have taken our OpenDOS to new territories. Unfortunately, he is no 
longer with us so we will have to imagine what kind of operating system 
he would now be showing us (probably a hybrid of DOS, Netware, 
DESQview/X, and EOS). As for computer languages, maybe we should follow 
UNIX and simply standardize on plain C?

:-)





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                               

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 9 Jan 2004 at 0:41, Peter Buzza Smith wrote:

> I've never heard of an OS called a "markup language," which is a term 
> usually used for formatting text (like TEX and HTML). But, yes, an OS is 
> a whole new human language. All the command-line DOS utilities, taken 
> together, constituted a true language. And DOS's true founder, Gary 
> Kildall, had visionary ideas about what direction such a language 
> could/should take. I can't say the same thing about Mr. Gates. Need we 
> remind people Gates started his fortune by buying a hacked copy of CP/M 
> to sell to IBM?

Actually, he started with Microsoft BASIC for old 
systems like the IMSAI and Altair. I've got a 
reprint of the issue of Dr. Dobbs where he rants and 
raves about it being pirated.

He was makimg tons of money from overpriced 
compilers long before he bought the rights to 86-DOS 
from Seattle Computing.

> It is true that UNIX (and hence, Linux) also constituted a useful 
> computer language. But I, personally, find a lot of UNIX conventions 
> unappealing. It's like comparing French to English. Or Mandarin to 
> Basque. Each language has its own benefits and flaws. One serious flaw 
> of UNIX was that it was developed during an early stage of computing, 
> with reference to tape drives, devices as subdirectories... and other 
> rather eccentric habits.

DOS uses the same conventions about many devices. 
Inherited from CP.M and Unix.

Try accessing LPT, PRN, CON, AUX and a number of 
others. Also note than any of the above can be 
accessed as <drive>\DEV\<device> even if there's no 
\Dev directory on the system. :-)

> The main reason I subscribe to the OpenDOS 
> newsgroup is that, for me, the old DOS was both easy to learn and also 
> very *simple* to manage. One only has to play around with one of the 
> current flavours of UNIX/Linux for, say, twenty minutes, before one 
> realizes one isn't in Kansas anymore. UNIX makes some very simple things 
> a lot more complicated!

Oh?

> I'm not a psychic, but if Gary Kildall was alive today, I suspect he'd 
> have taken our OpenDOS to new territories. Unfortunately, he is no 
> longer with us so we will have to imagine what kind of operating system 
> he would now be showing us (probably a hybrid of DOS, Netware, 
> DESQview/X, and EOS). As for computer languages, maybe we should follow 
> UNIX and simply standardize on plain C?

C is a problem language. It tends to encourage 
certain *bad* programming practices. Like unchecked 
type casting.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                              

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 10 Jan 2004 at 2:46, Day Brown wrote:

> shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
>  
> > > The main reason I subscribe to the OpenDOS
> > > newsgroup is that, for me, the old DOS was both easy to learn and also
> > > very *simple* to manage. One only has to play around with one of the
> > > current flavours of UNIX/Linux for, say, twenty minutes, before one
> > > realizes one isn't in Kansas anymore. UNIX makes some very simple things
> > > a lot more complicated!
> > 
> > Oh?
> Linux is simple enough if you're satisfied with what the distro you have
> offers. But trying to add or change anything can lead to endless threads
> such as we see in the Linux lists. The unintended consequences are
> considerably larger because Linux has so much more power.
>  
> > > I'm not a psychic, but if Gary Kildall was alive today, I suspect he'd
> > > have taken our OpenDOS to new territories. Unfortunately, he is no
> > > longer with us so we will have to imagine what kind of operating system
> > > he would now be showing us (probably a hybrid of DOS, Netware,
> > > DESQview/X, and EOS). As for computer languages, maybe we should follow
> > > UNIX and simply standardize on plain C?
> > 
> > C is a problem language. It tends to encourage
> > certain *bad* programming practices. Like unchecked
> > type casting.
> I never cared for it either. In dos, anything you want to do has already
> been written, and if not, you'll ed up using batch and/or assy to solve
> the problem.
> 
> Why dont the print screen key work in Linux? cause it was designed by
> and for system administrators, who dont need a hard copy nearly as often
> as the home user, who has his printer next to him, whereas a network
> printer can be anywhere on earth. Linux is terrific for business, with
> very stable networks the users cannot screw up. But home users get
> annoyed being told they dont have 'permission'.

Besides, redurecting output works just fine.  

And when it comes to permissions, you have to 
realizre that I'm running a Netware server at home. 
I actually *like* being able to have the system 
that's doing uucp & Fidonet mail *not* be able to 
access a lot of the drives and directories.



--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                 

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
 
> > The main reason I subscribe to the OpenDOS
> > newsgroup is that, for me, the old DOS was both easy to learn and also
> > very *simple* to manage. One only has to play around with one of the
> > current flavours of UNIX/Linux for, say, twenty minutes, before one
> > realizes one isn't in Kansas anymore. UNIX makes some very simple things
> > a lot more complicated!
> 
> Oh?
Linux is simple enough if you're satisfied with what the distro you have
offers. But trying to add or change anything can lead to endless threads
such as we see in the Linux lists. The unintended consequences are
considerably larger because Linux has so much more power.
 
> > I'm not a psychic, but if Gary Kildall was alive today, I suspect he'd
> > have taken our OpenDOS to new territories. Unfortunately, he is no
> > longer with us so we will have to imagine what kind of operating system
> > he would now be showing us (probably a hybrid of DOS, Netware,
> > DESQview/X, and EOS). As for computer languages, maybe we should follow
> > UNIX and simply standardize on plain C?
> 
> C is a problem language. It tends to encourage
> certain *bad* programming practices. Like unchecked
> type casting.
I never cared for it either. In dos, anything you want to do has already
been written, and if not, you'll ed up using batch and/or assy to solve
the problem.

Why dont the print screen key work in Linux? cause it was designed by
and for system administrators, who dont need a hard copy nearly as often
as the home user, who has his printer next to him, whereas a network
printer can be anywhere on earth. Linux is terrific for business, with
very stable networks the users cannot screw up. But home users get
annoyed being told they dont have 'permission'.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                  

From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net>

In Linux, it's necessary first to setup a printer and let the system know
what kind of printer is used before printing.  Now, it's possible for
Linux users even after setup to be told that they don't have permission
for doing a print job, but that usually only happens because they've
installed some security measures.





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                        

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
 
> And when it comes to permissions, you have to
> realizre that I'm running a Netware server at home.
> I actually *like* being able to have the system
> that's doing uucp & Fidonet mail *not* be able to
> access a lot of the drives and directories.
Sunna bitch. I been thinking of trying to see if fidonet was still
working. Is it still pretty clear of spam? Where do you logon?

But, BTW: how would fido mail (qwkmail?) access anything? And does the
print screen button work?


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
  

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 11 Jan 2004 at 1:59, Day Brown wrote:

> shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
>  
> > And when it comes to permissions, you have to
> > realizre that I'm running a Netware server at home.
> > I actually *like* being able to have the system
> > that's doing uucp & Fidonet mail *not* be able to
> > access a lot of the drives and directories.

> Sunna bitch. I been thinking of trying to see if fidonet was still
> working. Is it still pretty clear of spam? Where do you logon?

Remember, Fidonet is more or less a separate 
network. And while most traffic goes via the 
Internet these days (one of my echomail feeds is on 
the opposite side of the US from me) a lot still 
goes via point-to-point modem connections.
 
> But, BTW: how would fido mail (qwkmail?) access anything? And does the
> print screen button work?

I mostly read fidonet stuff in the Blue Wave offline 
reader, though I can read stuff with Front Door. And 
Front Door APX works ok as a Windows based point 
setup. 

I use Internet Rex for the fidonet over internet 
connections. 

Whether or not print screen works depends on the OS 
you are running and the program you are running. 

If you want to check into Fidonet send me an email 
with your area-code. I'll send you a file with the 
info about any nodes in your area.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                          

Hello Day!

*** 11.01.2004 at 01:59, Day Brown wrote to All:

 DB> From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

 DB> shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
 DB>  
 >> And when it comes to permissions, you have to
 >> realizre that I'm running a Netware server at home.
 >> I actually *like* being able to have the system
 >> that's doing uucp & Fidonet mail *not* be able to
 >> access a lot of the drives and directories.
 DB> Sunna bitch. I been thinking of trying to see if fidonet was still
 DB> working. 

Of course it's still working :-)

 DB> Is it still pretty clear of spam? 

Naturally :)

 DB> Where do you logon?

One way to access it is to get hold of a copy of the nodelist, select a 
prospective Boss and apply for a Point.

Regards,
Martin

--- timEd/Linux 1.11.b1
 * Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:250/501.2)
                                                                              

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Martin Foster wrote:
>  DB> Sunna bitch. I been thinking of trying to see if fidonet was still
>  DB> working.
> 
> Of course it's still working :-)
> 
>  DB> Is it still pretty clear of spam?
> 
> Naturally :)
> 
>  DB> Where do you logon?
> 
> One way to access it is to get hold of a copy of the nodelist, select a
> prospective Boss and apply for a Point.
i downloaded the nodelist, which has a .z02 extension that I dont have
an archive extractor for.
Why, in the sam hill dont they just make it a .zip? WTF?

And why, when an internet greenhorn goes to fidonet.org, dont they just
have the links to show him the numbers that might be a local call? Fido
might once have been a powerhouse that people hadda do things their way,
but now, it should be accomodating to the habits of net users, or it
will continue the slow slide to oblivion.

I see a similar phenomena on the Ham radio lists, very low traffic, and
again, they have not tried to integrate their system with the available
bleeding edge, (never mind cutting edge) technology that would make the
hardware setup a lot more affordable.

It looks like the internet is taking over all forms of communication,
which makes us all much more vulnerable to disaster should terrorism,
sabotage software, or just plain stupidity, crash the net. 

Nowhere, on either fido or ham lists did I see anyone trying to
integrate the two technologies, which would permit a wireless data
network to operate as a backup to the internet. formerly, when there was
an earthquake, flood, hurricane, or whatever, local ham radio operators
offered valuable communication services. That safety net is vanishing.
You get the idea that cell phones has made ham obsolete; which makes
sense to urbanites, but anyone who lives in a mountainous area knows how
spotty coverage is.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                              

-=> Day Brown wrote to All <=-
 DB> Sunna bitch. I been thinking of trying to see if fidonet was still
 DB> working. Is it still pretty clear of spam? Where do you logon?
	You can reply on the bbs you posted on, if he has fidonet. or
of course Planet Maca's Opus which also has fidonet. for contact info
see my origin line. Yes its mainly free of spammers. They have left
fidonet alone for the most part.
				B'ichela


... You can lead a user to Docs but you can't make 'em read
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                                          

Hiya DB,

 DB> i downloaded the nodelist, which has a .z02 extension that I dont have
 DB> an archive extractor for.
 DB> Why, in the sam hill dont they just make it a .zip? WTF?

Umm.. it is a zip file.. :)

 Ttyl :-),
         Al

--- Maximus/UNIX 3.03b
 * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, B.C. Canada (1:132/500.19)
                                                           

>>  DB> Where do you logon?
>>
>> One way to access it is to get hold of a copy of the nodelist, select a
>> prospective Boss and apply for a Point.

 DB> i downloaded the nodelist, which has a .z02 extension that I
 DB> dont have an archive extractor for.

sure you do... its a ZIP file...

 DB> Why, in the sam hill dont they just make it a .zip? WTF?

why? because the Z denotes that its a ZIP file... the 02 denotes the julian day 
of the year... since there are only three characters available in 8.3 format 
filenames, this was the best thing that could be done way back when... just be 
thankful that you found it as a Zxx file and not an Axx file as it should also 
be... Axx files are ARC files...

 DB> And why, when an internet greenhorn goes to fidonet.org, dont
 DB> they just have the links to show him the numbers that might
 DB> be a local call?

because that site is supposed to point you in the general direction of sites 
closer to you... each of those sites is maintained by someone else... and those 
will likely point you to sites even closer to you...

 DB> Fido might once have been a powerhouse that people hadda do
 DB> things their way, but now, it should be accomodating to the
 DB> habits of net users, or it will continue the slow slide to
 DB> oblivion.

it is accomodating the habits of i'net users... they click here and click there 
so click points are provided OB-)

 DB> I see a similar phenomena on the Ham radio lists, very low
 DB> traffic, and again, they have not tried to integrate their
 DB> system with the available bleeding edge, (never mind cutting
 DB> edge) technology that would make the hardware setup a lot
 DB> more affordable.

 DB> It looks like the internet is taking over all forms of
 DB> communication, which makes us all much more vulnerable to
 DB> disaster should terrorism, sabotage software, or just plain
 DB> stupidity, crash the net.

yup... and if one has watched the terminator movies, they can easily see what 
may come to pass...

 DB> Nowhere, on either fido or ham lists did I see anyone trying
 DB> to integrate the two technologies, which would permit a
 DB> wireless data network to operate as a backup to the internet.

can't do that... you can read stuff on ham bbs' but you can't write or transmit 
anything unless you hold a ham license... them's gov't rules... fidonet is not 
governed in that way at all...

 DB> formerly, when there was an earthquake, flood, hurricane, or
 DB> whatever, local ham radio operators offered valuable
 DB> communication services. That safety net is vanishing. You get
 DB> the idea that cell phones has made ham obsolete; which makes
 DB> sense to urbanites, but anyone who lives in a mountainous
 DB> area knows how spotty coverage is.

ham is still around and do provide those same services... they are just not as 
visible as they once were due to the proliferation of more trees in the 
forest...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                                                            

> i downloaded the nodelist, which has a .z02 extension that I dont have
> an archive extractor for.

    It's just a zip archive; use one of any number of zip programs on it...

>, which would permit a wireless data  network to operate 

   Since that's already in place, inlcuding being connected as part of the
internet;  I'm not sure what your point is...


> as a backup to the internet.

   Internet = " network of networks".   It isn't posible to back up the
internet except with itself...


    Any further comments on all that will be an appropriate echo...


Jame



--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: http://bbs.rocasa.org (1:120/546)
                                                                                                                        

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

The product lifecyle for Fidonet may soon, if not already have,
come to an end.  Take MCI Mail which was decommissioned after 20
years.  As a fee based message handling service it allow more and
better access as well as more message delivery options as well as
someone to say the time has come.

Access: No access charges for 800 number in the US, at speeds
down to 300 baud half duplex with a paper terminal.  Also
Z-modem, Y-modem, Kermit and a customizable proprietary protocol.
Dial access in something like 110 other countries, as well as via
the global packet switching network, and via the global telex
network which would include radio telex.  Maybe radio access via
Motorola's EMBARC service.  There was access via the Internet,
but that was kept secret from their customers.

Messages: MCI Mail, Internet, X.400, Telex, Fax send only (plain
text, .TIFF, .PCL5, and PostScript), Worldwide postal or courier
delvery (plain text or color PostScript).  As long as you used
ASCII text, the same message could go via all delivery options
with one send.

Everying worked better and faster, just not cheaper.  After 20
years with MCI Mail, my laptop, a 1984(?) Sord IS-11C could live
on through Fidonet.  Kinda scary.

-- Gary Welles

| Date:     Tue Jun 24, 2003  4:12 pm  EDT
| From:     Help with MCI / MCI ID: 324-8333
|
| Subject:  Final MCI Mail Decommissioning Notice
|
<snip>
| . . .  The decision to decommission the MCI Mail service was not
| made lightly, and resulted from careful analysis of MCI Mail's
| maintenance costs and revenue trends.  This analysis identified
| that the product lifecycle for the MCI Mail service has come to
| an end.
<snip>



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                             

 GW> From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

 GW> The product lifecyle for Fidonet may soon, if not already
 GW> have, come to an end.

there is not "product lifecycle" for fidonet... fidonet is not a product... as 
far as fidonet is concerned, it will be over when /i/ pull the plug... that 
means that /i/ will be the last person standing... i'm not leaving until 
everyone else has also...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                     

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Jame Clay wrote:

>    Since that's already in place, including being connected as part of the
> internet;  I'm not sure what your point is...

A network having a gateway to the Internet, as Fidonet does, does
not make it part of the Internet.  I assume Fidonet users can
exchange messages without those messages traversing the Internet,
or at least not as Internet mail (SMTP).

Consider X.400 as a more expensive alternative.  MCI Mail has
been decommissioned, but the other carriers remain and the X.400
details are valid:

     X.400 - The Better Internet
     http://www.oppenheimer-software.com/x400.html

Also, I'd expect e-mail with mobile devices like phones and
pagers are private message systems with Internet gateways.

-- Gary



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                            

From: Rob McGee <i812@softhome.net>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 05:48:00PM -0500, Michele Marie Dalene wrote:
> 				B'ichela

B'ichela!! It sure is a small Internet. Good to see you here! I've been
a part-time-lurker on this sleepy old list for a long time, and I don't
recall having seen you here before.

Of course on further thought it should have come as no surprise. Does
your BBS run on DOS? Are you using dosemu for it? Hey, watch me wiggle
this message back on topic. ;)

    Rob - /dev/rob0
    (on Usenet under rob0@gmx.co.uk)


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                   

-=> mark lewis wrote to Day Brown <=-
 ml> yup... and if one has watched the terminator movies, they can easily see 
 ml> what 
 ml> may come to pass...
	Planet Maca's still gets all Fidonet and Othernet mail via
telephone links. Thanks to the AT&T Unlimited plus plan, its like a
local phone call. That way if the internet goes "bump" people can still
read fido. I also have a fully available dialup line for bbs callers as
well and my Linux shell account users. 

				Michele Marie Dalene


... They will see me, whether they like it or not. - Delenn
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                                                                                                 

-=> Rob McGee wrote to All <=-


 RM> From: Rob McGee <i812@softhome.net>
 RM> B'ichela!! It sure is a small Internet. Good to see you here! I've been
 RM> a part-time-lurker on this sleepy old list for a long time, and I don't
 RM> recall having seen you here before.
	I'm around here and there. mostly read usenet, helps when one
runs their own news server ;) 
 RM> Of course on further thought it should have come as no surprise. Does
 RM> your BBS run on DOS? Are you using dosemu for it? Hey, watch me wiggle
 RM> this message back on topic. ;)
	Not currently. I was debating and testing running Maximus 3.02
under Dosemu with DR-DOS 7.03. Had bad karma with dosemu eating my
nodelists.
	If I could find a Telnetd for Dos that works with a packet
driver that emulates a modem (freeware please). I might just set up a
few Dos boxen to handle a few telnet/dialup nodes.
	Nothing Wrong with Synchronet but... I just don't like it very
much.
	Of course how would I tell my linux firewall to try another
dos bbs when the first is busy? You know like a hunt group, thus 3
386s/486s. one caller per machine. if Machine 3 is free send all
telnets to that machine. Of course most of the time the 4 nodes I
currently have are empty! Need users! Mostly get one call at a time.

Anyway, if you know me from the web then you know I ran a bbs right?
;) its in my usenet signature.

... 220V for a computer? Shocking!
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
          

-=> Gary Welles wrote to All <=-


 GW> From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>
 GW> 
 GW> Jame Clay wrote:
 GW> 
 GW> >    Since that's already in place, including being connected as part of 
 GW> the
 GW> > internet;  I'm not sure what your point is...
 GW> 
 GW> A network having a gateway to the Internet, as Fidonet does, does
 GW> not make it part of the Internet.  I assume Fidonet users can
 GW> exchange messages without those messages traversing the Internet,
 GW> or at least not as Internet mail (SMTP).
	As I understand some people use The Internet as the medium to
carry their fidonet packets. While where are some gateways. Most
fidonet mail says on fidonet for fidonet. Thats why there isn't really
any spam, I tried it. I wasn't too happy with it. and trying to keep
binkd in sync with binkleyterm was diffcult, it wasn't impossible but
it just was not worth it.

				B'ichela



... You can lead a user to Docs but you can't make 'em read
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                                                                              

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

mark lewis wrote:
> 
> Originally to: Gary Welles
> 
>  GW> From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>
> 
>  GW> The product lifecyle for Fidonet may soon, if not already
>  GW> have, come to an end.
> 
> there is not "product lifecycle" for fidonet... fidonet is not a product... 
as
> far as fidonet is concerned, it will be over when /i/ pull the plug... that
> means that /i/ will be the last person standing... i'm not leaving until
> everyone else has also...
I had a good friend who ran a WWIV; I thought fido a bit stodgy. Looked
into setting up a BBS with Fido, but found the process oddly
complicated. I dont mind if there's a network for parents worried about
what their kids will see, but what other BBS networks are still
operating?

What BBS do you dial into? 
I remember some which had a logon screen with 25 options, which file or
message system. Most of the time, just a single choice got you what you
needed. I remember others which showed an artistic logon, but then only
asked me my logon/pw, and then another click to the message section,
wait for that screen to load, then another click with another
screenload, and so it went- the sysop more interested in me looking at
the artwork than actually getting anything done. Like a lotta websites
these days.

But I still have OFFLINE.EXE sitting on the drive for the next qwkmail
setup.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                        

 MMD>     As I understand some people use The Internet as the medium
 MMD> to carry their fidonet packets. While where are some gateways.
 MMD> Most fidonet mail says on fidonet for fidonet. Thats why there
 MMD> isn't really any spam, I tried it. I wasn't too happy with it.
 MMD> and trying to keep binkd in sync with binkleyterm was diffcult,
 MMD> it wasn't impossible but it just was not worth it.

what kind of "syncing" between binkd and binkleyterm is necessary? they both 
operate on the same outboxes and use the same semaphores... what am i missing? 
i keep binkd and frontdoor tied together and that's quite a bit more difficult 
than binkd and binkleyterm since FD uses a totally different methodology and 
intertask/interprocess signalling scheme...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                                  

>>  GW> The product lifecyle for Fidonet may soon, if not already
>>  GW> have, come to an end.

>> there is not "product lifecycle" for fidonet... fidonet is not
>> a product... as far as fidonet is concerned, it will be over
>> when /i/ pull the plug... that means that /i/ will be the last
>> person standing... i'm not leaving until everyone else has
>> also...

 DB> I had a good friend who ran a WWIV; I thought fido a bit
 DB> stodgy.

if you were coming at fidonet from a WWIV bbs, i don't doubt that one bit... 
WWIV has its own methodology and networking style... shoehorning fidonet into 
WWIV is like showhorning QWK into fidonet... the basic message content comes 
across but the total functionality does not...

 DB> Looked into setting up a BBS with Fido, but found the
 DB> process oddly complicated.

that would depend on the software you choose to use... i find some seem to 
integrate much better and easier than others... personally, i run frontdoor, 
remoteaccess and fastecho and then tie binkd in on the backside with another 
util or two...

 DB> I dont mind if there's a network for parents worried about
 DB> what their kids will see, but what other BBS networks are
 DB> still operating?

i couldn't tell ya, really... there is a whole list published in the fidonet 
OTHERNETS echo from time to time... however, those, IIRC, are all based on FTN 
(fidonet technology networking)...

 DB> What BBS do you dial into?

i don't dial in... i'm a sysop and haven't dialed in in over 15 years... i do 
all my accessing of my system on the backside...

 DB> I remember some which had a logon screen with 25 options,
 DB> which file or message system. Most of the time, just a
 DB> single choice got you what you needed. I remember others
 DB> which showed an artistic logon, but then only asked me my
 DB> logon/pw, and then another click to the message section,
 DB> wait for that screen to load, then another click with another
 DB> screenload, and so it went- the sysop more interested in me
 DB> looking at the artwork than actually getting anything done.
 DB> Like a lotta websites these days.

yeah, many are/were more interested in prettyfying their stuff rather than 
providing decent functionality... the main reason for this was to try to make 
the system unique in a sea of likeness... especially when most of them are 
running the same software of software that emulates other systems... i prefer 
my remoteaccess where i have to design my menus myself and come up with my own 
command keys and such... there's no other system like it in the world ;-)

 DB> But I still have OFFLINE.EXE sitting on the drive for the
 DB> next qwkmail setup.

hehehe...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                                   

From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net>

mskermit 3.16 handles telnet pretty well.





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                             

From: Rob McGee <i812@softhome.net>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 03:39:00PM -0500, Michele Marie Dalene wrote:
>  RM> B'ichela!! It sure is a small Internet. Good to see you here! I've been
>  RM> a part-time-lurker on this sleepy old list for a long time, and I don't
>  RM> recall having seen you here before.
> 	I'm around here and there. mostly read usenet, helps when one

Ah, well at the time I wasn't aware of this list being gated to FIDO.
After all this time, here I am back on FIDO! :) Yes, I mostly read
Usenet as well, and a.o.l.slackware in particular.

>  RM> your BBS run on DOS? Are you using dosemu for it? Hey, watch me wiggle
>  RM> this message back on topic. ;)
> 	Not currently. I was debating and testing running Maximus 3.02
> under Dosemu with DR-DOS 7.03. Had bad karma with dosemu eating my
> nodelists.

Hmmm, not good. My kids are running DOS games on FreeDOS in dosemu.
Sometimes they work, sometimes not. The nifty thing is that you get
networking and access to your Unix filesystems (and commands!) right
there from a DOS prompt. Bless their hearts for giving me LS.EXE, else I
would never be able to list my files. :) And for no extra charge you get
an emulated Sound Blaster. :) (When I ran native DOS I didn't have sound
in games, so all these noises are new to me.)

How long ago did you try dosemu? They're up to an almost-1.2.0 release
now, under a new maintainer. I made an i686 package for Slackware 9.1,
which I could send you if you like. ("installpkg" it and go.)

> 	If I could find a Telnetd for Dos that works with a packet
> driver that emulates a modem (freeware please). I might just set up a
> few Dos boxen to handle a few telnet/dialup nodes.

This part I would not know how to do, but perhaps with a lot of work you
could port the GNU telnetd to DOS. This list certainly has some who
could accomplish that!

> 	Nothing Wrong with Synchronet but... I just don't like it very

I mostly used PCBoards back in the day. I never was a sysop. Back then I
didn't know enough about computing. Now I know too much ... LOL! ;)

> 	Of course how would I tell my linux firewall to try another
> dos bbs when the first is busy? You know like a hunt group, thus 3
> 386s/486s. one caller per machine. if Machine 3 is free send all

Originally I thought about round-robin DNS, but that's wrong. I think
you need a special (albeit not very complex) daemon to listen on 23 and
distribute the incoming connections among available nodes. I don't know
what keywords to try, but I'll bet if you looked around freshmeat long
enough you would find something to do this.

On further thought this entire thing might be possible in iptables and
shell scripts. Your firewall's first filter rule must be a state rule
for ESTABLISHED and RELATED. In nat PREROUTING it would be set to DNAT
the first incoming 23 to the first node. Next (this part I am not sure
how to do) a script is signalled to send the next connection to the next
node. It simply changes the DNAT rule to go to the next node, and above
that puts in a DNAT specific to the client IP to continue the DNAT to
the original node.

AHA! Use a ULOG rule just before the DNAT. That could be set to trigger
the change of the DNAT rule. I'm still a bit fuzzy on details, but I now
know that this can work. You just need something listening on the ULOG
socket, and have that run the script to change the DNAT.

Perhaps the nodes could be set to notify the firewall machine when they
become available again. Or, the /proc/net/ip_conntrack table could be
grep'ed for telnet connections to the node. That way if a node is still
in use the firewall knows not to put it in the rotation yet. (I'd think
the latter method would be the fastest.)

> telnets to that machine. Of course most of the time the 4 nodes I
> currently have are empty! Need users! Mostly get one call at a time.

Same problem BBS's had a long time ago. :) In some ways I miss the sense
of community that existed on BBS's, but the Internet has many advantages
too. And horror of horrors -- I find I actually *prefer* anarchic
newsgroups over well-ordered echomail conferences. I just tune out the
obnoxious self-appointed netcops, and I refuse to be bothered by any
rudeness or profanity. It works for me.

> Anyway, if you know me from the web ...

Well, technically speaking (and who is better qualified to speak
technically than a bunch of computer geeks? :) Usenet is not the Web.
Yes, I know you from a.o.l.s. This thread stuck in my memory because you
were on such hard times: (watch for word wrap)
    http://groups.google.com/groups?&threadm=slrnae8u63.8nm.mdalene%40pinkrose.local.net

I've seen you posting since then, too, along with taking over Cnews and
...

> then you know I ran a bbs right? ;) its in my usenet signature.

... starting the BBS. Yes, I did know that, and yesterday I finally
looked in on you. :) I was amazed to see that so many of the old
echo networks are still around! But there's not a lot of activity.

    Rob - /dev/rob0


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                               

From: Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online.de

Hello,

being blind I'm forced to use m$dos. 
My 38.400-modem however, in dos transmits max 19.200 bps. 
The dos mail program used is called UKA_PPP.

According to the German documentation for m$dos 6.22 the following is what
I do understand:

MODE configures devices (in my case COM2 for my modem) in the system. 
The list for valid baud rates for MODE in m$dos 6.22, however, only goes 
up to 19.200 bps. 

Is there a trick existing or a tsr to load to make data transfer 
faster (similar to INTERSVR or INTERLNK, both making up to 115.200 bps) 
in m$dos 6.22?
My processor speed is 300 MHz.

Thanks and regards,

Peter






--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
              

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 17 Jan 2004 at 22:56, Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> being blind I'm forced to use m$dos. 

No you aren't. I've got a blind friend and her 
system (which I'm currently doing some work on) runs 
Windows 98.

> My 38.400-modem however, in dos transmits max 19.200 bps. 

Your modem does *not* run at 38,400 bps. If it's a 
V.34 modem, it'll run at a max of 33,600 bps, and 
the odds are that thelocal telecommuncations 
authority (FCC in the US, different agencies in 
other countries) won't authorize it to run above 
31,200 or so.

For best results, you need to set the comm port to 
115,200 bps.

> The dos mail program used is called UKA_PPP.
> 
> According to the German documentation for m$dos 6.22 the following is what
> I do understand:
> 
> MODE configures devices (in my case COM2 for my modem) in the system. 
> The list for valid baud rates for MODE in m$dos 6.22, however, only goes 
> up to 19.200 bps. 

> Is there a trick existing or a tsr to load to make data transfer 
> faster (similar to INTERSVR or INTERLNK, both making up to 115.200 bps) 
> in m$dos 6.22?

Easiest way in DOS is probably to grab a FOSSIL 
driver such as X00 and use it as a serial driver and 
use the included utility program XU to set the bit 
rate and enable the FIFO buffer.

If you want a copy, I can email it to you. You'll 
need a copy of pkunzip to extrat the files from the 
archive.

> My processor speed is 300 MHz.

That's the same speed as Lin's system. It runs JAWS 
quite well. Alas, JAWS costs $2000. Unless you can 
get your local commision for the blind or the like 
to buy it for you.

It doesn't require dedicated speech cards, it'll 
work with any sound card that Windows supports.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                  

Hello Peter!

- 17.01.04 at 22:56, Lindner-Thalmaessing # t-online.de wrote to All:

 LT> From: Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online.de

 LT> Hello,

 LT> being blind I'm forced to use m$dos.
 LT> My 38.400-modem however, in dos transmits max 19.200 bps.
 LT> The dos mail program used is called UKA_PPP.

 LT> According to the German documentation for m$dos 6.22 the following
 LT> is what I do understand:

 LT> MODE configures devices (in my case COM2 for my modem) in the
 LT> system. The list for valid baud rates for MODE in m$dos 6.22,
 LT> however, only goes up to 19.200 bps.

 LT> Is there a trick existing or a tsr to load to make data transfer
 LT> faster (similar to INTERSVR or INTERLNK, both making up to 115.200
 LT> bps) in m$dos 6.22?
 LT> My processor speed is 300 MHz.

Having used UKA_PPP for quite some time in the past, I can say there's no  
trick involved at all.

So long as you provide UKA_PPP with the following information, there  
shouldn't be a problem with data transfer rates:

ComPort
ComPort address
ComPort IRQ
Baudrate (this should preferably be 115200 but 57600 would suffice)
Modem init string

There is absolutely no need whatsoever for the M$DOS MODE stuff!

I feel that your problem *may* lie with your modem init string.
What modem is it exactly?
What chipset has it got?
What init string are you using in UKA_PPP?

 LT> Thanks and regards,

Hope the above information helps .....

Regards,
Martin

--- CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3 R
 * Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:250/501.2)
                 

Hello opendos@delorie.com!

15 Jan 04 08:19, Gary Welles wrote to OpenDos:

 >> Since that's already in place, including being connected as part
 >> of the internet;  I'm not sure what your point is...

 GW> A network having a gateway to the Internet, as Fidonet does, does
 GW> not make it part of the Internet.  I assume Fidonet users can
 GW> exchange messages without those messages traversing the Internet,
 GW> or at least not as Internet mail (SMTP).

The classic networking definition of a "gateway" =does= require being a member 
of the multiple networks involved, so those gateway systems are "part of the 
Internet" or they can't technically "gate".

With the advent of IP mailers for Fidonet, the majority of IP nodes in Fido are 
tunneling Fido protocols within Internet protocols...not utilizing the 
translation services provided by a gateway to convert one to the other.  That 
=does= (necessarily) make them a "part of the Internet" =and= "part of Fidonet" 
simultaneously, during a single connection.

With some IP mailers, it is also possible to transfer Fido data files 
(including messages) using only Internet protocols, and none of the Fidonet 
handshake/transfer protocols.

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                                             

From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net>

Better to look into buying window-eyes rather than jaws.
http://www.gwmicro.com is the url with all of the information.  Better
pricing and more upgrade support built into the price that way.  Also,
more stable speech.  Tje womdpw-eues suste, os fpr tjpse wjp dpm t ;ole tp
jave tp rebppt tjeor cp,[iters dao;u wjetjer pr mpt tjeu




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                             

From: Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online.de

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> wrote:

>>>
more stable speech. Tje womdpw-eues suste, os fpr tjpse wjp dpm t ;ole tp
jave tp rebppt tjeor cp,[iters dao;u wjetjer pr mpt tjeu
>>>

This sounds double dutch to me. What does it mean?

Peter Lindner



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
 

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 19 Jan 2004 at 17:35, Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online wrote:

> On Sunday, 18 Jan 2004, "Martin Foster" <ccoky@iglou.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Martin,
> 
> > So long as you provide UKA_PPP with the following information, there
> > shouldn't be a problem with data transfer rates:
> 
> > ComPort
> Comm2 used, but UKA:_PPP on screen always reports Comm1!!!

You have to get used to this. Some software stats 
numbering at 0, some start at 1. You have to learn 
to keep track of which is which.

> > ComPort address
> > ComPort IRQ
> > Baudrate (this should preferably be 115200 but 57600 would suffice)
> > Modem init string

> $PORT=2F8  # Adress of serial port
> $IRQ=3  # Interrupt of serial port
> $BAUD=19200  # DTE speed (38400 up to 115200 will not work!)
> initstring="at&FL2M2"  # Modem initstring  # "at&F" originally
> dialstring="atdt"  # Dial-Prefix

> See above. ;=)
> 
> > What modem is it exactly?
> > What chipset has it got?
> > What init string are you using in UKA_PPP? (see above)
> 
> Concerning the hardware questions, I must wait to February.
> I am blind, but then my seeing wife comes back from a journey.

Can you fire up a regular terminal program and try 
sending some strings to it?

Many modems will identify themselves when given the 
appropriate commands. Try typing in A T I then 
hitting enter. If that gives a response try adding 
digits to the end of the command. They'll give 
various other bits of info.

Also, if you can even remember the *brand* of the 
modem it would help some.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                         

Hello Peter!

19.01.04 at 17:35, Lindner-Thalmaessing # t-online.de wrote to All:

 LT> From: Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online.de

 LT> On Sunday, 18 Jan 2004, "Martin Foster" <ccoky@iglou.com> wrote:

 LT> Hi Martin,

 >> So long as you provide UKA_PPP with the following information, there
 >> shouldn't be a problem with data transfer rates:

 >> ComPort
 LT> Comm2 used, but UKA:_PPP on screen always reports Comm1!!!

Yep, UKA_PPP *always* reports Com1 regardless of what Comport is actually  
being used. It's purely a cosmetic bug so don't take any notice of it.

 >> ComPort address
 >> ComPort IRQ
 >> Baudrate (this should preferably be 115200 but 57600 would suffice)
 >> Modem init string

 LT> See my file WATTCP.CFG:

OK but due to a hardware problem I'm experiencing at the moment, I can't  
get at any of my backups, so I'll have to work from memory.

 LT> #-----------------------------
 LT> # This is the main configuration file used by the x_* applications
 LT> # and by the tcpip kernal.
[..]
 LT> $BAUD=19200  # DTE speed (38400 up to 115200 will not work!)

I don't recall you saying what the problem is exactly. What actually  
happens if you set the baudrate higher than 19200 ?

[..]
 LT> $com_int=65  # Interrupt used by tcpport (originally 14)

Any particular reason why you changed this ?

 LT> #-----------------------------

 >> I feel that your problem *may* lie with your modem init string.

 LT> See above. ;=)

Seen it and it looks OK to me.

 >> What modem is it exactly?
 >> What chipset has it got?
 >> What init string are you using in UKA_PPP? (see above)

 LT> Concerning the hardware questions, I must wait to February.
 LT> I am blind, but then my seeing wife comes back from a journey.

OK, I understand.

Regards,
Martin

--- OpenXP 3.8.14-67 beta
 * Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:250/501.2)
                                                                                 

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

With the nodelist being all telephone numbers, if FidoNet is part
of a network, it's the telephone network.  Certainly from a
FidoNet user's perspective and as been suggested an alternative
to the Internet.  Randy Bush's article explains it all for us:

    "FidoNet is a point-to-point and store-and-forward email WAN
    which uses modems on the direct-dial telephone network."

FidoNet: Technology, Use, Tools, and History
http://www.fidonet.org/inet92_Randy_Bush.txt

I found some hope for FidoNet in Vert Cerf's comments on MCI Mail
before they decided it had reached the end of it's product life
cycle.  The article has a history of MCI Mail up to that point.

    "In fact it's probably time to put it to bed, but anything
    that works is hard to stop."

Vinton G. Cerf an Oral History
http://www.cwheroes.org/oral_history_archive/vinton_g_cerf/oralhistory.pdf

And for a history of that Internet email we all seem to think
everybody uses now:

How Email Was Invented
http://livinginternet.com/e/ei.htm

-- Gary



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
   

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 20 Jan 2004 at 9:44, Gary Welles wrote:

> With the nodelist being all telephone numbers, if FidoNet is part
> of a network, it's the telephone network. 

Actually, the nodelist hasn't been "all telephone 
numbers" for some time.

Do a search for nodes with a "phone number" field 
that starts "000-". The remaining digits will 
(usually) be an IP addresses with "-" replacing "."

And a lot of the "private" entries have flags 
showing them to actually be "internet only" nodes. 
There are at least a thousand nodes that can *only* 
be connected to via the Internet. 

And a lot more than can be connected to by phone 
*or* via the internet.

Still more can make outgoing connections via the 
internet, but not accept incoming ones.

> Certainly from a FidoNet user's perspective and as been suggested an
> alternative to the Internet.  Randy Bush's article explains it all for
> us: 
> 
>     "FidoNet is a point-to-point and store-and-forward email WAN
>     which uses modems on the direct-dial telephone network."

And Randy left Fidonet some years ago.
 
And even before he left there were issues with 
things like nodes in Europe that could *only* be 
connected to via an ISDN "modem". Regular modems 
couldn't connect to those nodes.

Now we've got half a dozen or more incompatible ways 
of connecting via the Internet.
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                  

-=> mark lewis wrote to Michele Marie Dalene <=-
 ml> what kind of "syncing" between binkd and binkleyterm is necessary? they 
 ml> both 
 ml> operate on the same outboxes and use the same semaphores... what am i 
 ml> missing? 
	Biggest issue. if a node has both a dialup and a telnet node.
whichever mailer gets it first does the calling. Therefore you have to
watch out for who is sending the mail as its "first come, first served. 

				B'ichela


... Get away from me with that carcinogenic deathstick.
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
              

i need to find the dos version of the virtual modem software. I know I
have heard of it. I thought I even downloaded it. I want to use it to
connect a dos bbs running under dos to my TCP/IP packet driver. I hear
of COM/IP but thats for windows only. Does anyone know the name and
location of a dos driver that does the same?
				B'ichela


... Get away from me with that carcinogenic deathstick.
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                                                                                                                              

From: "Robert Mergy Sr." <rmergy@yahoo.com>

--0-195382660-1074710274=:25313
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I want to put Dabian GNU/linux on one of my computers. The video card in the 
box is a Mad Dog Product  MD-FX5200PCI. MadDog does not have a driver. The 
video proccessor is a NVIDIA and I went to their web site and found Linux 
drivers, but none were listed for the Debian distribution. Can anyone help?  
Bob


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
--0-195382660-1074710274=:25313
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>I want to put Dabian GNU/linux on one of my computers. The video card in 
the box is a Mad Dog Product  MD-FX5200PCI. MadDog does not have a driver. 
The video proccessor is a NVIDIA and I went to their web site and found Linux 
drivers, but none were listed for the Debian distribution. Can anyone 
help?  Bob</DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! Hotjobs: <a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/evt=21482/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus">Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes</a>
--0-195382660-1074710274=:25313--

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                

From: Thomas A Webb <tawebb@earthlink.net>

I cannot speak as an expert on Debian, We have our own distribution, and 
our experience with the commercial distributions has been mostly with 
Slackware. However, I suspect that the issues are similar.

If your card is AGP, load the agp module [or compile it in if you are 
going to do a kernel build] at boot time. I load it in the rc.modules 
script.

The program "xf86config" points to a generic nvidia module, which you 
can load; I don't know whether that supports all the 3d/acceleration 
features or not.. You can also probably use the "vesa svga" driver and 
get good performance for most purposes. If you are a gamer, I would try 
the generic nvidia driver, as it may handle the whiz-bang features 
better. If it turns into a life and death struggle, use the program 
"xf86cfg". It pokes and prods and does the best it can using "Plug and 
Pray" methods.

The particular flavor of linux you are running isn't very relevant here. 
The video driver links into the kernel and uses no libraries. Depending 
on how the kernel was built, you may need to override the version check, 
  if you download and use binary drivers.

Robert Mergy Sr. wrote:
> I want to put Dabian GNU/linux on one of my computers. The video card in 
> the box is a Mad Dog Product  MD-FX5200PCI. MadDog does not have a 
> driver. The video proccessor is a NVIDIA and I went to their web site 
> and found Linux drivers, but none were listed for the Debian 
> distribution. Can anyone help?  Bob
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes 
> <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/evt=21482/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus> 
> 

-- 
Thomas A Webb
http://www.ospueblo.com - Open Source and Educational Resources
http://wordwonder.com - For Readers and Thinkers




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                

-=> Rob McGee wrote to All <=-
 RM> Ah, well at the time I wasn't aware of this list being gated to FIDO.
 RM> After all this time, here I am back on FIDO! :) Yes, I mostly read
 RM> Usenet as well, and a.o.l.slackware in particular.
	Yep. saw you on a.o.l.slackware. 
 RM> How long ago did you try dosemu? They're up to an almost-1.2.0 release
	Right now my dosemu boxen has other issues that need to be
looked at. For some reason I am getting kernal panics. Looks like the
memory may have gone bad. ;* 
 RM> Same problem BBS's had a long time ago. :) In some ways I miss the sense
 RM> of community that existed on BBS's, but the Internet has many advantages
	Thats the atmosphere I am trying to establish. Albeit not very
successfully. ;( 
 RM> Yes, I know you from a.o.l.s. This thread stuck in my memory because you
 RM> were on such hard times: (watch for word wrap)
	I still am on hard times. But they are not Alternative Dos
issues so I won't go into that stuff here. 

					B'ichela


... old school BBS, new technology, same old headaches...
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                                                                                                              

Hello opendos@delorie.com!

20 Jan 04 09:44, Gary Welles wrote to OpenDos:

 GW> With the nodelist being all telephone numbers, if FidoNet is part
 GW> of a network, it's the telephone network.

I am the host of my network and the only member with a phone number in my 
nodelisting (alongside my IP information).  The rest of my network accesses 
Fido via the Internet using analog modem, cable modem, or DSL. Some are "always 
on" and can accept a connection from me whenever I initiate it.  Others use 
temporary connections and must initiate a connection with me (and/or other Fido 
nodes) to pick up what is held for them.  In =no= case, are modem-to-modem 
connections using only Fidonet protocols made between myself and the members of 
my own network.

 GW>     "FidoNet is a point-to-point and store-and-forward email WAN
 GW>     which uses modems on the direct-dial telephone network."

Substitute "The Internet" for "FidoNet" in the statement above and it is 
equally accurate/inaccurate.  Personal messaging ("email") is just one of many 
services available from both networks.  Accessing the telephone network with an 
analog modem device is just one of multiple methods of making a connection to a 
physical layer that is common to both networks.

> PATH: 2320/105 261/38 123/500 106/2000 140/1 382/61

This is the sequence of Fidonet nodes by which your message reached my system. 
Of the six addresses listed, only the first two do =not= publish IP information 
in their nodelist entry for the given address.  The sysop of the 2nd system 
also has alternate AKA addresses which do.

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                             

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

I live way out in the country, a local rural telephone system, (with
crummy isp service) and I dont need a node list cause there is no local
call to a bbs. It's cheaper for me to call out of state (ARK.). So- the
question is, is there a review of the USA national BBSes some place that
I can look at to see which would be most worth my long distance money?


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                          

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Mike Tripp explained:

> I am the host of my network and the only member with a phone number in my
> nodelisting (alongside my IP information).  The rest of my network accesses 
Fido
> via the Internet using analog modem, cable modem, or DSL. Some are "always 
on"
> and can accept a connection from me whenever I initiate it.  Others use
> temporary connections and must initiate a connection with me (and/or other 
Fido
> nodes) to pick up what is held for them.  In =no= case, are modem-to-modem
> connections using only Fidonet protocols made between myself and the members 
of
> my own network.

Citing Randy Bush <http://www.fidonet.org/inet92_Randy_Bush.txt>
and saying from a users perspective, I was suggesting that it's
those "others" who characterize the FidoNet.

MCI Mail's monthly bill served to reinforce the "us/them"
distinction.  They had connections to a variety of networks, we
did not.

-- Gary



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                            

Hello opendos@delorie.com!

24 Jan 04 10:43, Gary Welles wrote to OpenDos:

 GW> Citing Randy Bush <http://www.fidonet.org/inet92_Randy_Bush.txt>
 GW> and saying from a users perspective, I was suggesting that it's
 GW> those "others" who characterize the FidoNet.

Analog modems direct-dialing other analog modems are supported, but not 
necessary.  Analog mailer software running solely Fidonet session protocols are 
supported, but not necessary.  Phone numbers in your nodelist entry are 
supported, but not necessary.  Accessing the Internet via gateways is 
supported, but not necessary.  Fidonet =is= part of the Internet, and both have 
continued to evolve over the last 15 years.  More of those simple facts are 
contradicted, misinterpreted, or unacknowledged by the statements by Gary 
Welles than by the 1992 historical retrospect by Randy Bush.

As long as anyone with even a casual interest in participating in Fidonet 
understands that they may do so through the same hardware and software they 
would use to access the Internet, my objective in joining this thread is 
accomplished.

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                

-=> MICHELE MARIE DALENE wrote to ALL <=-

 MMD> i need to find the dos version of the virtual modem software. I know I
 MMD> have heard of it. I thought I even downloaded it. I want to use it to
 MMD> connect a dos bbs running under dos to my TCP/IP packet driver. I hear
 MMD> of COM/IP but thats for windows only. Does anyone know the name and
 MMD> location of a dos driver that does the same?
 MMD>     B'ichela

I tested out netmodem32 with a 16-bit dos-based BBS. I ran the BBS in a DOS
window (98) though. Would that meet your requirements? You don't need a
fossil driver with netmodem32. It was pretty simple to set up. I had a
horrendous time with COM/IP.

... What the hell... it worked on Star Trek!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.46
 * Origin: Joe's Computer & BBS, Crystal River, Fl. -= telnet.joe (1:275/312)
                                                                                

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Martin C wrote:
> 
> Hello, I have a problem running DR-DOS 7.03. I´m using
> a virtual drive of 16 Mb, and a program I run makes
> the screen to switch to 50 lines. If I use the 'EGA
> lines' in Norton Commander it comes back to 25 lines.
> I´m using the virtual drive because I need it to run
> that program, and it doesn't make any change to the
> screen if I load it with a HD...
> 
> Any ideas what can a program do to make that switch?
> Can I switch it back?
With dos, any program can call INT 10 and change the text mode screen.
FORCEXT.ZIP, or some such, I think at GARBO, SIMTEL, FILELIBRARY, et al,
seems to go into the kernel and change the default from 25 to 50 lines,
so that when NC, Neopaint or whoever exits, it comes up with the 50 line
screen. It has a funny bug that changes the high intensity blue to
regular blue underline. unless you're using fancy ansi graphics, that
wont matter.

'Directory Wizard', aka DW-xx.zip, has a config.exe which sets the
default for the file manager to 50, and it'll prolly exit in 50 as well.

Then there's also 'SET60.EXE' which gives vesa svga 60 line text screen.
which your video card might, or might not like, and some software works
with it, some dont.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                   

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Mike Tripp wrote:

>             . . ..  Fidonet =is= part of the Internet, and both have 
continued
> to evolve over the last 15 years.  More of those simple facts are 
contradicted,
> misinterpreted, or unacknowledged by the statements by Gary Welles than by 
the
> 1992 historical retrospect by Randy Bush.

Apologies for having offered the Bush quote without realizing
it's age. I saw the 1992-93 copyright date on the article, but
perhaps daily viewing of similar current DOS copyright dates led
me to the DOS user's perception that 1993 was last year.

Let me make up for this with reference to a brief and optimistic
assement of FidoNet in an Internet/Usenet context:

     Usenet - FidoNet
     http://livinginternet.com/u/ui_fidonet.htm

which also contains references, among them Jerry Schwartz's
1995-2003 primer:

     A FidoNet Primer
     http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

-- Gary



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                         

From: Martin C <forolinux@yahoo.com>

Hello, I have a problem running DR-DOS 7.03. I´m using
a virtual drive of 16 Mb, and a program I run makes
the screen to switch to 50 lines. If I use the 'EGA
lines' in Norton Commander it comes back to 25 lines. 
I´m using the virtual drive because I need it to run
that program, and it doesn't make any change to the
screen if I load it with a HD...

Any ideas what can a program do to make that switch?
Can I switch it back?

Thank you in advance.

Martín.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                       

From: "J. Yazel" <jyazel@nls.net>

	
 Unsubscribe




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                     

From: "Hannon, Glen (GEAE)" <glen.hannon@ae.ge.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: J. Yazel [mailto:jyazel@nls.net]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:09 PM
To: opendos@delorie.com
Subject: Unsubscibe


	
 Unsubscribe



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                           

From: Bill Marcum <bmarcum@iglou.com>


--envbJBWh7q8WU6mo
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 08:49:24AM -0800, Martin C wrote:
> Hello, I have a problem running DR-DOS 7.03. I´m using
> a virtual drive of 16 Mb, and a program I run makes
> the screen to switch to 50 lines. If I use the 'EGA
> lines' in Norton Commander it comes back to 25 lines. 
> I´m using the virtual drive because I need it to run
> that program, and it doesn't make any change to the
> screen if I load it with a HD...
> 
> Any ideas what can a program do to make that switch?
> Can I switch it back?
> 
The MODE command can change the number of lines.  I think
you need DEVICE=ANSI.SYS in config.sys, and the command
MODE CO80,25 or MODE CO80,50 (that's C, the letter O, 8 zero).


-- 
Absurd Procrustean Egghead Cornstarch Variant Bill Marcum

--envbJBWh7q8WU6mo
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature
Content-Disposition: inline


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                     

From: Martin C <forolinux@yahoo.com>

It worked perfect, I just added 'mode co80,25' to the
bat file that loads my program and that was it.

Thank you all very much.


--- Bill Marcum <bmarcum@iglou.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 08:49:24AM -0800, Martin C
> wrote:
> > Hello, I have a problem running DR-DOS 7.03. I´m
> using
> > a virtual drive of 16 Mb, and a program I run
> makes
> > the screen to switch to 50 lines. If I use the
> 'EGA
> > lines' in Norton Commander it comes back to 25
> lines. 
> > I´m using the virtual drive because I need it to
> run
> > that program, and it doesn't make any change to
> the
> > screen if I load it with a HD...
> > 
> > Any ideas what can a program do to make that
> switch?
> > Can I switch it back?
> > 
> The MODE command can change the number of lines.  I
> think
> you need DEVICE=ANSI.SYS in config.sys, and the
> command
> MODE CO80,25 or MODE CO80,50 (that's C, the letter
> O, 8 zero).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Absurd Procrustean Egghead Cornstarch Variant Bill
> Marcum
> 

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature
name=signature.asc



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

To change back, try :
mode co80,25
(I'm assuming colour mode, else change "co80" to whatever appropriate)

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Martin C [SMTP:forolinux@yahoo.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, January 27, 2004 3:49 AM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	Switch to 25 lines.
> 
> Hello, I have a problem running DR-DOS 7.03. I´m using
> a virtual drive of 16 Mb, and a program I run makes
> the screen to switch to 50 lines. If I use the 'EGA
> lines' in Norton Commander it comes back to 25 lines. 
> I´m using the virtual drive because I need it to run
> that program, and it doesn't make any change to the
> screen if I load it with a HD...
> 
> Any ideas what can a program do to make that switch?
> Can I switch it back?
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> Martín.
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                               

Hello opendos@delorie.com!

26 Jan 04 08:46, Gary Welles wrote to OpenDos:

 GW> I saw the 1992-93 copyright date on the article, but perhaps daily
 GW> viewing of similar current DOS copyright dates led me to the DOS
 GW> user's perception that 1993 was last year.

1993 would be "today" to my DOS and a "couple of years from now" to my Netware 
3.11. :)

 GW> Let me make up for this with reference to a brief and optimistic
 GW> assement of FidoNet in an Internet/Usenet context:

While gating is still fairly common between Fido echomail and Usenet 
newsgroups, there are also NNTP server front-ends which access and store 
locally in Fido messagebase formats enabling dynamic message-by-message 
translation as opposed to wholesale batch translation of a lump of data in this 
format to a lump of data in that format.

 GW> which also contains references, among them Jerry Schwartz's
 GW> 1995-2003 primer:

 GW>      A FidoNet Primer
 GW>      http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

Looks like we need to prompt somebody to publish a few "present and future of 
Fidonet" articles to balance out the plethora of "history of" articles...

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                  

-=> ANDY ALT wrote to MICHELE MARIE DALENE <=-
 AA> I tested out netmodem32 with a 16-bit dos-based BBS. I ran the BBS in a 
 AA> DOS
 AA> window (98) though. Would that meet your requirements? You don't need a
	I need it to work with a dos packet driver. Not sure if I can
gurantee a 32 bit applicatation like that would work. If only I could
remember the name of one that was 16 bit. Umm lets see. dial-ip?
Serial-IP? Vfossil? I would like it to emulate a com port so I could
also use it with Telix. A Virtual Fossil would be fine but then I
still need a shim for telix. I heard of its virtues here if fido
before but I cannot remember the name of it? COM/IP clearly states it
will NOT work. The box does not have Windows other than windows 3.1.
	Does anyone know? My old brain just can't think of any names.

				B'ichela


... Ahh wight!  Where's my WAM memowy you wascwy wabbitt?
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                     

From: Florian Xaver <flox@drdos.org>

As www.drdos.com posts: New version 8.0 in Spring of 2004 :-)

Bye, flox



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                         

 ml>> what kind of "syncing" between binkd and binkleyterm
 ml>> is necessary? they both operate on the same outboxes
 ml>> and use the same semaphores... what am i missing?

 MMD> Biggest issue. if a node has both a dialup and a telnet
 MMD> node.

i've both here in my frontdoor setup...

 MMD> whichever mailer gets it first does the calling.
 MMD> Therefore you have to watch out for who is sending the
 MMD> mail as its "first come, first served.

ahhh...

seems to me that one could configure the POTS node to handle certain addresses 
and leave the IP node to handle the rest... that's what i do here...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                                                           

 MMD> i need to find the dos version of the virtual modem
 MMD> software. I know I have heard of it. I thought I
 MMD> even downloaded it. I want to use it to connect a
 MMD> dos bbs running under dos to my TCP/IP packet driver.
 MMD> I hear of COM/IP but thats for windows only. Does
 MMD> anyone know the name and location of a dos driver
 MMD> that does the same?

i believe that is/was RLFOSSIL...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                            

-=> mark lewis wrote to Michele Marie Dalene <=-
 ml> i believe that is/was RLFOSSIL...
	I figured that out last night (duh!) but it does not work
quite like bnu.sys or bnu.com. I  would like to find a TSR or a device
driver type system. Now from reading the manual on how it works.  do I
set it up like this, its only an example
rlfossil parameters.... c:\nerf.bat
whereas c:\nerf.bat is the actual batch file that runs maximus and the
handling of external doors. Its a carry over from when I ran opus
1.73a (I would still have used opus if it was y2k compliant, which it
is NOT!)
	Since we are talking a batch file and not a .exe or .com.
would I need to fire it up like so:
rlfossil parameters c:\command -c c:\nerf.bat

	What I would rather do is invoke it like I do bnu.sys in my
config.sys file or at the very least like bnu.com in my autoexec.bat
file.
	What other fossils  or com port emulators that are Msdos
native are out there? I am talking 16 bit here, Not  Windows 9x or
later.
	I have   checked my nightly CVS compiles of the Linux maximus
and it can't find two entries which I am going to ask about in muffin.
If they fix those mites, I might be able to run maximus on linux after
all.
					B'ichela


... Beware of programmers that carry screwdrivers!!!
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                   

-=> mark lewis wrote to Michele Marie Dalene <=-
 ml> seems to me that one could configure the POTS node to handle certain 
 ml> addresses 
 ml> and leave the IP node to handle the rest... that's what i do here...
	For now I am only using the dialup side for fido. With the
AT&T Unlimited Plus plan it works out fine. I have thought of your
idea but the problem was just too much to wrap my head around. Perhaps
someday I will revisit it.
				B'ichela


... Get away from me with that carcinogenic deathstick.
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
            

 ml>> seems to me that one could configure the POTS node to
 ml>> handle certain addresses and leave the IP node to handle
 ml>> the rest... that's what i do here...

 MMD>     For now I am only using the dialup side for fido. With
 MMD> the AT&T Unlimited Plus plan it works out fine. I have
 MMD> thought of your idea but the problem was just too much to
 MMD> wrap my head around. Perhaps someday I will revisit it.

its actually easier than many make it...

1. each has their own config files.
2. those configs share the same directories.
3. set the POTS node to HOLD * except those you POTS deliver
4. set the IP node to HOLD those you IP deliver to

having run binkleyterm briefly (about 2 months) years back, i can see that 
there may be some problems due to the use of the file extensions to determine 
what to do with the bundle... that's one of the main things i like about 
FrontDoor... it doesn't care about the extensions 'cause everything is set in 
the configs and it only looks at the destination address in the netmail message 
containing the attach of the bundle...

this is also why using fileboxes for binkd works out better... i don't know if 
binkleyterm does fileboxes or not but it doesn't really matter cause you can 
set binkd to use one set of default outbound and binkleyterm to use another... 
then its a simple matter of putting the outbound files in the proper outbound 
for the proper deliver program you desire to use...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                

-=>> mark lewis wrote to Michele Marie Dalene <=-
 ml>> i believe that is/was RLFOSSIL...

 MMD>     I figured that out last night (duh!) but it does not work
 MMD> quite like bnu.sys or bnu.com. I  would like to find a TSR or
 MMD> a device driver type system.

that's the only one available for a pure DOS environment... all of they try to 
emulate what ray gwinn (x00) created for the OS/2 environment with his vmodem 
exe and protocol in his SIO comm interface package...

 MMD> Now from reading the manual on how it works.  do I set it up
 MMD> like this, its only an example

sorry, i dunno... i've never attempted IP stuff for the BBS in a pure DOS 
setup... i went to OS/2 Warp 3 Connect when it was released for public 
consumption and have never looked back... within weeks after ray released his 
SIO package, i was up online with my bbs running on the telnet stuff... i don't 
recall when i registered SIO but when i did, i went for the 8 port package at 
that time...

[trim]

 MMD>     What other fossils  or com port emulators that are Msdos
 MMD> native are out there?

none... RLFOSSIL was the only one written, TTBOMK... everything else was 
targetted at the winwhatever environments and most of those at the winNT stuff 
due to its "server" classification...

 MMD> I am talking 16 bit here, Not  Windows 9x or later.
 MMD>     I have   checked my nightly CVS compiles of the Linux
 MMD> maximus and it can't find two entries which I am going to
 MMD> ask about in muffin.

yes, i'm seeing something out of whack, too... my runs consist of a totally 
clean (nothing exists) build... script blows away the existing directory, 
extracts the original archive, grabs the CVS, run the config, and the build... 
then i look at the end of the build log to see if it tells me that it completed 
correctly... if i don't see that, i go hunting...

 MMD> If they fix those mites, I might be able to run maximus on
 MMD> linux after all.

good luck! i know that bo has really been working on the telnet stuff...

if it were me, though... i'd just get (at least) OS/2 Warp 3 Connect installed, 
ray gwinn's SIO package (v1.60d), and the OS/2 version of max and do it that 
way... that works and has worked for many... the *nix stuff is still very beta 
and unproven...

[disclaimer: i've only ever seen max from the user's side... even though i'm 
compiling it and reporting errors, i've never run it... i've been runnint 
RemoteAccess ever since RA v0.04 was released some 14 or so years ago...]

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                       

Hello Mark,

 MMD>     I have   checked my nightly CVS compiles of the Linux
 MMD> maximus and it can't find two entries which I am going to
 MMD> ask about in muffin.

When I first started trying out the cvs versions of Maximus I got errors 
because it needs the libncurses-DEV* headers that I didn't have installed. Make 
would give errors that didn't say anything about ncurses but since I installed 
them I haven't had any problems. ATM Max is compilling quite well not even 
giving many warnings.

I don't know if that's what's happening there but it solved my problems. I can 
just cvs up maximus now to get the latest fixes and build again.

 MMD> If they fix those mites, I might be able to run maximus on
 MMD> linux after all.

 ml> good luck! i know that bo has really been working on the telnet stuff...

Yes, he's been hard at it, he's got mex working now.. :) Max's future is 
looking good.

 ml> if it were me, though... i'd just get (at least) OS/2 
 ml> Warp 3 Connect installed, ray gwinn's SIO package 
 ml> (v1.60d), and the OS/2 version of max and do it that 
 ml> way... that works and has worked for many... the *nix 
 ml> stuff is still very beta and unproven...

Me too.. :) Linux is a lot like OS/2 (but different!) with a more powerfull 
shell.

 ml> [disclaimer: i've only ever seen max from the user's 
 ml> side... even though i'm compiling it and reporting 
 ml> errors, i've never run it... i've been runnint 
 ml> RemoteAccess ever since RA v0.04 was released some 14 
 ml> or so years ago...]

I ran RA from around 94-96, when I took the OS/2 plunge I switched to 
Maximus/2. I had the non-networked version though so I never had the telnet 
setup you did. Those were the days.. :))

 Ttyl :-),
         Al

--- Maximus/UNIX 3.03b
 * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, B.C. Canada (1:132/500.19)
                                                                                      

 MMD>>     I have   checked my nightly CVS compiles of the Linux
 MMD>> maximus and it can't find two entries which I am going to
 MMD>> ask about in muffin.

 AI> When I first started trying out the cvs versions of Maximus I
 AI> got errors because it needs the libncurses-DEV* headers that I
 AI> didn't have installed. Make would give errors that didn't say
 AI> anything about ncurses but since I installed them I haven't
 AI> had any problems. ATM Max is compilling quite well not even
 AI> giving many warnings.

 AI> I don't know if that's what's happening there but it solved my
 AI> problems. I can just cvs up maximus now to get the latest
 AI> fixes and build again.

no, i was getting good compiles a few weeks ago and then bo and another did 
some updates and commits and its failing again... the stderr log for the build 
session is 28k... the other one is 80k... i'm totally unable to tell where the 
error is... i've got to get into muffin and post...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                      

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Florian Xaver wrote:
> 
> As www.drdos.com posts: New version 8.0 in Spring of 2004 :-)
> 
> Bye, flox
any idea what it's spozed to have that it dont already?


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                

> I live way out in the country, a local rural telephone system, (with
> crummy isp service) and I dont need a node list cause there is no local
> call to a bbs. It's cheaper for me to call out of state (ARK.). So- the
> question is, is there a review of the USA national BBSes some place that
> I can look at to see which would be most worth my long distance money?
 
502-875-8938
 
Mike
 
##MMR 2.61(beta).  !link DB 01-22-04 19:00 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                                                  

Hello mark!

30 Jan 04 12:09, mark lewis wrote to Michele Marie Dalene:

 MMD>> I figured that out last night (duh!) but it does not work
 MMD>> quite like bnu.sys or bnu.com. I  would like to find a TSR or
 MMD>> a device driver type system.

 ml> that's the only one available for a pure DOS environment... all of
 ml> they try to emulate what ray gwinn (x00) created for the OS/2
 ml> environment with his vmodem exe and protocol in his SIO comm interface
 ml> package...

Actually, X00 was developed for DOS and carried forward into SIO.  It will load 
as driver or TSR (simply by renaming X00.SYS to X00.EXE).  It's the only FOSSIL 
I've used (succesfully) on my DOS BBS node since day one.  QEMM and BNU never 
like to play together on my hardware.

===
Gwinn's Communications Controller, X00.SYS Version V1.53a, installed.
Copyright 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 by:
        Raymond L. Gwinn
        12469 Cavalier Drive
        Woodbridge, Virginia 22192
01 Communications port(s) will be supported.
All rights reserved.  Unauthorized distribution prohibited.
===

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                                

 MMD>>> I figured that out last night (duh!) but it does not work
 MMD>>> quite like bnu.sys or bnu.com. I  would like to find a TSR or
 MMD>>> a device driver type system.

 ml>> that's the only one available for a pure DOS environment... all of
 ml>> they try to emulate what ray gwinn (x00) created for the OS/2
 ml>> environment with his vmodem exe and protocol in his SIO comm interface
 ml>> package...

 MT> Actually, X00 was developed for DOS and carried forward into
 MT> SIO.  It will load as driver or TSR (simply by renaming
 MT> X00.SYS to X00.EXE).  It's the only FOSSIL I've used
 MT> (succesfully) on my DOS BBS node since day one.  QEMM and BNU
 MT> never like to play together on my hardware.

uh, you've misread something... MMD is looking for a DOS virtual modem shim... 
RLFOSSIL is the only one available for a pure DOS environment...

i put (x00) up there so that MMD and others would be able to associate the name 
with something they might know...

i've used x00 and BNU for years and even written my own FOSSIL driver but since 
moving to OS/2, i went with SIO and have never looked at anything else...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
                                                                                                                     

Hello mark!

30 Jan 04 12:09, mark lewis wrote to Michele Marie Dalene:

 MMD>> I figured that out last night (duh!) but it does not work
 MMD>> quite like bnu.sys or bnu.com. I  would like to find a TSR or
 MMD>> a device driver type system.

 ml> that's the only one available for a pure DOS environment... all of
 ml> they try to emulate what ray gwinn (x00) created for the OS/2
 ml> environment with his vmodem exe and protocol in his SIO comm interface
 ml> package...

Actually, X00 was developed for DOS ('87-'93) and carried forward into SIO 
('93+).  It will load as driver or TSR (simply by renaming X00.SYS to X00.EXE). 
It's the only FOSSIL I've used (succesfully) on my DOS BBS node since day one. 
QEMM and BNU never like to play together on my hardware.

===
Gwinn's Communications Controller, X00.SYS Version V1.53a, installed.
Copyright 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 by:
        Raymond L. Gwinn
        12469 Cavalier Drive
        Woodbridge, Virginia 22192
01 Communications port(s) will be supported.
All rights reserved.  Unauthorized distribution prohibited.
===

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                 

From: Day Brown <daybrown@hypertech.net>

Mike Powell wrote:
> 
> Originally to: Day Brown
> 
> > I live way out in the country, a local rural telephone system, (with
> > crummy isp service) and I dont need a node list cause there is no local
> > call to a bbs. It's cheaper for me to call out of state (ARK.). So- the
> > question is, is there a review of the USA national BBSes some place that
> > I can look at to see which would be most worth my long distance money?
> 
> 502-875-8938
thanx for the suggestion, but that's not a list. Or- do you mean the
list is at that BBS?


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                      

From: David Oberst <oberlists@stats.gov.nt.ca>

I'm trying to get a 600K file off a small store's computer system.  They
have three ancient Compaq Presario 425 machines (486, from 1993), which
appear to be networked using coax (presumably Ethernet).  The machines
themselves seem to be running DR-DOS (7.02, I think) and Personal Netware.

The file is on a server volume which is viewable by the other two terminals,
but unfortunately both terminal machines I have access to have non-working
floppys - they seem to be incredibly dirty, and won't read or format a disk
- I tried cleaning one with no luck.  The machines don't have CD-ROM, and no
other way to easily get files on or off the machine.

I may be able to connect a laptop to one of the machines via serial cable.
Is there by any chance any sort of terminal or file transfer program that
would be available on a basic DR-DOS install?  If not, I'd probably have to
just do a COPY to the serial port and live with any noise - it is a text
file, so if I copy two or three times I should be able to compare and find
any differences.  

I not in a position to do any heroic hardware upgrades on the machines, but
I do have an old 10-T hub which also has a coax port, and I was going to
plug the network cable from one of the computers into this, along with a
laptop.  I'm hoping that will get me on the network.  Once I am, will a
Netware client on the laptop be able to see the Personal Netware server and
log on for file sharing?  Does anyone know what transport protocol Personal
Netware uses (IPX or IP)? I have a Mac laptop and evaluation versions of a
NetWare client with both IPX and IP options, but I know nothing about
whether Personal Netware looks like real Netware to a client.  To top it
off, the Mac laptop doesn't have a serial port, so I'll have to find
something else to try that.

Oh, the joys of ancient hardware - it has been a long time since I did
anything with DOS...
-- 

   David Oberst, Yellowknife, NWT, Canada
   [Explore Canada's Arctic]

 



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                               

FX>As www.drdos.com posts: New version 8.0 in Spring of 2004 :-)

I clicked on the link that says that.  It took me to a press release
from 2002, that said that a new version should be expected in
Spring, *2003*.  I wonder if it was supposed to come out in Spring, 2003,
and is now vaporware, or if it will indeed be out in Spring, 2004?

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 * KY, USA * v34


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
      

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Eric Meyer's 2002 ZIP v2.21 may meet your ancient to modern file
transfer needs:

     http://home.att.net/~short.stop/zip221.zip

DR-DOS's 1998 FILELINK offers similar function and I expect will
also run from other versions of DOS.

-- Gary Welles



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
       

From: "Ben A L Jemmett" <ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk>

> I may be able to connect a laptop to one of the machines via serial cable.
> Is there by any chance any sort of terminal or file transfer program that
> would be available on a basic DR-DOS install?

There is, and it's called FILELINK.  It's got the usual bootstrap routine so
you can start it on one machine and copy it over to the other end without
having to install DR-DOS (if you don't already have it at the other end).

> I not in a position to do any heroic hardware upgrades on the machines, but
> I do have an old 10-T hub which also has a coax port, and I was going to
> plug the network cable from one of the computers into this, along with a
> laptop.  I'm hoping that will get me on the network.  Once I am, will a
> Netware client on the laptop be able to see the Personal Netware server and
> log on for file sharing?

The old VLM client for DOS is the only one that will access a Personal NetWare
server.  At a protocol level, PNW and NetWare itself are incompatible, so the
other Novell clients won't talk to PNW.  I'm not sure if the Macintosh client
will talk to PNW, since that's nothing to do with Novell these days, but I
doubt it'll work.  At a transport level, Personal NetWare uses IPX.

Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ben.jemmett/, http://www.deltasoft.com/)



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Jemmett Glover Software Development (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                    

Hello mark!

31 Jan 04 13:59, mark lewis wrote to Mike Tripp:

 ml> uh, you've misread something... MMD is looking for a DOS virtual modem
 ml> shim... RLFOSSIL is the only one available for a pure DOS
 ml> environment...

 ml> i put (x00) up there so that MMD and others would be able to associate
 ml> the name with something they might know...

Oops, my bad...didn't put the narrower context of the reply into the broader 
context of the thread.

.\\ike

--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: -=( The TechnoDrome )=- Austin,TX 512-327-8598 33.6k (1:382/61)
                                                                                          

this may assist you in your quest...


 * Forwarded from "FTSC_PUBLIC"
 * Original by Peter Knapper (3:772/1.10)
 * Original to Mark Lewis
 * Original dated Sun 1 Feb 2004 15:02

 -+- Forwarded message follows: -+-

Hi Mark,

 ml> maybe i'm not making the case clear...

 ml> 1. you are a dual connected system.
Yep...
 ml> 2. you have a connection with a dual connected system.
Yep, I most certainly do, seveal of them...
 ml> 3. mail for that system is in FLO files
Yep...

 ml> which ever mailer is the first to grab and start the
 ml> connection process is the one that does the delivery...

Yes that is true, but thats how I WANT it to work. However the PSTN mailer wont 
send a .HLO file anywhere, until I change that file to either CRASH or NORMAL. 
And my IP mailer wont send it anywhere until I create a matching .ILO file. 
Quite simply, traffic for ALL my connections is always placed on HOLD and NEVER 
gets sent as NORMAL or CRASH unless an appropriate Binkley Schedule catches it, 
OR I manually force it. My background mail processing task will detelect .HLO 
traffic for any KNOWN IP node, and automatically generate the matching .ILO 
file, and the outbound then goes via IP...

 ml> now, how does one determine which mailer
 ml> is /the/ one to handle a connection for this destination?

I use natural selection. IE, I dont allow the PSTN Mailer to take any outbound 
actions until that action fits within the timeframes I desire (IE ZMH or other 
user specified intervals). These are a very limited number of periods during 
the day. In my case this is a standard Binkley configuration.

Because I have a 24 x 7 internet connection, my background mail processing task 
(it runs about once per minute or whenever an event triggers some sort of mail 
processing action), will check for .HLO files for any of my regular IP 
connections, and automatically schedule an outbound IP call by creating a .ILO 
file. Because this means outbound IP can happen any time, 99.99% of the time, 
such outbound goes via IP.

Both Binkley and BinkD implement .BSY files, so there is never a clash of node 
doing the processing.

Cheers............pk.


-!- Maximus/2 3.01
 ! Origin: Another Good Point About OS/2 (3:772/1.10)

 -+- End of forwarded message -+-

)\/(ark

 
* Origin: (1:3634/12)
        

From: David Oberst <oberlists@stats.gov.nt.ca>

on 1/31/04 7:34 PM, Ben A L Jemmett at ben.jemmett@ukonline.co.uk wrote:

> The old VLM client for DOS is the only one that will access a Personal 
NetWare
> server.  At a protocol level, PNW and NetWare itself are incompatible, so the
> other Novell clients won't talk to PNW.

I was afraid of this.  Oh well, on to the serial port.  Our oldest Mac
laptop actually did have a serial port, but it is now in the land of
disrepair.  I'll have to find someone to borrow a PC from.

>> I may be able to connect a laptop to one of the machines via serial cable.
>> Is there by any chance any sort of terminal or file transfer program that
>> would be available on a basic DR-DOS install?
> 
> There is, and it's called FILELINK.  It's got the usual bootstrap routine so
> you can start it on one machine and copy it over to the other end without
> having to install DR-DOS (if you don't already have it at the other end).

Thanks,
-- 

     David Oberst/NWT Bureau of Statistics/Yellowknife, NWT, Canada
     [Explore Canada's Arctic]




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                 

From: Florian Xaver <flox@drdos.org>

2004 is new... The hp changed!


Mike Powell wrote:

> FX>As www.drdos.com posts: New version 8.0 in Spring of 2004 :-)
> 
> I clicked on the link that says that.  It took me to a press release
> from 2002, that said that a new version should be expected in
> Spring, *2003*.  I wonder if it was supposed to come out in Spring, 2003,
> and is now vaporw
-- 
Florian Xaver <http://www.flox.at.tf>
<http://www.drdos.org> <http://www.denk-fanpage.at.tf>






--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                            

-=> mark lewis wrote to Michele Marie Dalene <=-
 ml> that's the only one available for a pure DOS environment... all of they 
 ml> try to 
 
	Ok, Its time for me to at least move my dosemued bbs over to a
real dos box. It actually uses a real HD for it. I will pkzip it up
and use split to bust it into a bunch of floppies. (the box's tcp/ip
works but I am out of 10base-2 cables long enough to reach my kitchen
table right now.

 Ml writes about Maximus...
 ml> yes, i'm seeing something out of whack, too... my runs consist of a 
 ml> totally 
 ml> clean (nothing exists) build... script blows away the existing 
 ml> directory, 
 ml> extracts the original archive, grabs the CVS, run the config, and the 
	My script does the same here with the nightly CVS compiles. I
mentioned the errors in muffin and hopefully Bo and the other Lower
Code Dwellers (its an Opus term btw.) will update the CVS to fix that
mite. 
 
 ml> good luck! i know that bo has really been working on the telnet stuff...

	They are also trying to get direct modem serial support
working as a module. Being I have both telnet and dialup lines.... I
really NEED that! I wonder if the errors I got are related to the
serial port support.
 
ml> if it were me, though... i'd just get (at least) OS/2 Warp 3 Connect 
 ml> installed, 

	I know Nada of OS/2. Nor do I have OS/2 here. If someone wants
to send me an os/2 package with disks and manuals I might give it a
try.

				B'ichela


... 220V for a computer? Shocking!
--- blueMail/Linux 0.11
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: Planet Maca's Opus (860)738-7176 300-33600bps (1:142/7176)
                                                     

| thanx for the suggestion, but that's not a list. Or- do you mean the
| list is at that BBS?
+-[DB=>All]
 
Not a list, just a suggestion.  ;-)
 
Mike
 
##MMR 2.61(beta).  !link DB 01-31-04 09:52 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                                

From: Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online.de

<shadow@shadowgard.com>
Subject: com speed with m$dos 6.22
X-Mailer: NOS-BOX 2.05

Martin Foster and Leonard Erickson asked me for the type of modem I have.
Well, it's a USRobotics Sportster Voice 33.6 Faxmodem.

As mentioned formerly on/at this forum, I can't reach a higher transfer
rate than 19.200 bps with M$DOS 6.22 + this modem + the ancient German dos
mailer UKA_PPP. This is absolutely insufficient, I mean.

When configuring its WATTCP.CFG with higher rates, the
following screen output will occur:

*---------

at&FL2M2

OK
t-online atdt0191011

CONNECT 31200/ARQ
pktdrvr.bat ppp 2F8 3 115200 60 t-online
Resident size: 87632
coreleft: 2560
COM1 2F8 3: [NS16550A] [rlsd line control] 115200 bps
 MC: int 0  DTR On  RTS On  CTS On  DSR On  RI Off  CD On
 RX: int 0  chars 0  hw over 0  hw hi 0  fifo TO 0  sw over 0  sw hi 0
 TX: int 0  chars 0  THRE TO 0
main: connect ppp0 <--> COM1.
sifdown: IP interface inactive.
main: COM1, carrier lost.
Connection terminated.
PPP link is down, driver not installed.

*---------

The consequence of "main: COM1, carrier lost." is, that the traffic then
will be interrupted, and out of the modem's speaker a constant beep can be
heared for some time.

As mentioned in the forum before, I was bothering about this "COM1" on the
screen, despite the fact, really my modem is on com2, see 2F8 above.

Leonard Erickson <shadow@shadowgard.com> then wanted to help me by mailing
X00 as an attachment to me.

Since my speech output (I am blind) is on com1, I get problems with it when
installing x00 with a general syntax like "LH X00 1".
An example for Desqview in the manual says "X00 0=COM1".
So I tend to using "X00 1=COM2".
But then, I additionally must declare the transfer rate as - for instance -
115200 bps or less, but surely more than 19200!

So, how should my complete command line look alike for
- X00 active on com2 only?
- higher transfer rate than the max 19200 bps under m$dos?

Thanks in advance for a good advice,

Peter

Peter Lindner, Aue Nr. 37, D-91177 Thalmaessing, Tel. +49-9173-1844
... abB! ...



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 7 Feb 2004 at 19:14, Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online wrote:

> Martin Foster and Leonard Erickson asked me for the type of modem I
> have. Well, it's a USRobotics Sportster Voice 33.6 Faxmodem.

Ok, that should be able to (and does, from what you show below) 
connect at 31200
  
> When configuring its WATTCP.CFG with higher rates, the
> following screen output will occur:
> 
> *---------
> 
> at&FL2M2
> 
> OK
> t-online atdt0191011
> 
> CONNECT 31200/ARQ
> pktdrvr.bat ppp 2F8 3 115200 60 t-online
> Resident size: 87632
> coreleft: 2560
> COM1 2F8 3: [NS16550A] [rlsd line control] 115200 bps
>  MC: int 0  DTR On  RTS On  CTS On  DSR On  RI Off  CD On
>  RX: int 0  chars 0  hw over 0  hw hi 0  fifo TO 0  sw over 0  sw hi 0
>  TX: int 0  chars 0  THRE TO 0
> main: connect ppp0 <--> COM1.
> sifdown: IP interface inactive.
> main: COM1, carrier lost.
> Connection terminated.
> PPP link is down, driver not installed.

> The consequence of "main: COM1, carrier lost." is, that the traffic
> then will be interrupted, and out of the modem's speaker a constant
> beep can be heared for some time.

What's probably going on is that the program and the modem aren't 
agreeing on the way things should be set up.

One thing that is critical is that the modem has to be set to 115200 
bps and then told to *always* talk to the computer at that rate, 
regardless of what rate it is talking to the other modem at.

I'll have to look up the settings for "lock baud rate" on a USR. 
That's one of the things I do when I first get a modem. And I then 
save it into the non-volatile RAM in the modem so I can just do an 
ATZ and have the modem be set the way I want it.

BTW, that long tone indicates that the modem (probably on the other 
end) is still trying to talk to you.

Oh yes, another problem with older programs and modern modems is that 
it can take well over 30 seconds to get the handshaking finished. So 
the "time to wait for carrier" setting in any program needs to be set 
to 60 seconds. 

And if there's a setting for how long to wait for logon to complete 
before timing out, that needs to be set to 90 seconds.

I was having trouble with that on my uucp connections. I had to find 
the (well hidden!) setting for time to wait for transfer to start and 
increase it.

> So, how should my complete command line look alike for
> - X00 active on com2 only?
> - higher transfer rate than the max 19200 bps under m$dos?

I install X00.SYS in CONFIG.SYS. 

But installing it in Autexec or at the command line works much the 
same. 

X00 E 1

The 1 is support only 1 comm port. The E has something to do with 
status messages during install.

Before loading my mailer I run a batch file:

COMMSET.BAT:

loadfix xu set:1:115200:8n1
loadfix xu lock:1:115200:8n1
loadfix xu port:1:on

The loadfix is needed if you've got too much conventional RAM free. 
The exe packer used on X00 gets upset if it is loading to an address 
that starts below the 64k mark. The usual error message is "packed 
file is corrupt".

XU is a utility included with X00. It's used for changing port 
settings, and for getting port status. 

XU S (after X00 is running) will give you a status report for all 8 
of the possible ports. You'll want to pay attention to the line that 
says Chip Type. If it lists anything other than 16550A, you may want 
to replace your serial port hardware. If it lists 8250, you 
*definitely* want to replace it!

Anyway, the first line is a set command. Remember that X00 starts 
numbering the ports with 0. So COM2 is port 1.

xu set:1:115200:8n1

sets port 1 (COM2) to 115200 bps, and 8 bit, no parity, 1 stop bit.

The next line 

xu lock:1:115200:8n1

*locks* the port to those settings. So any attempt by another program 
to change those settings will be ignored.

Finally:

xu port:1:on

turns on (enables) the port for use.




--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                               

Hi shadow@shadowgard.com,

You wrote to All on 07.02.04 about "X00 and other stuff":

[snip to this portion]
s> I'll have to look up the settings for "lock baud rate" on a USR.
s> That's one of the things I do when I first get a modem. And I then
s> save it into the non-volatile RAM in the modem so I can just do an
s> ATZ and have the modem be set the way I want it.

Make sure to get hold of a USR manual.  Reason:  USRs, generally,  
use the ATZ and ATZ1 commands somewhat differently from other  
modems.

i.e. in short:-

USR modems restore the port speed that was in use when the AT&W
command was issued (saving the profile) and that port speed is
restored in the modem when ATZ is issued.  e.g.:  With your port
speed set to 57,600, you issue the following command:

AT&F1&W^M.

You then change the port speed to 38,400, and issue the following:

ATZ1^M.

The modem will now be configured to expect a port speed of 57,600.
Your PC port speed is 38,400.  If the modem now receives a call, it
will send RING at 57,600bps, and your program will _not_ see the
RING, because the port speed is mismatched.  If, however, you send
_any_ AT command (except ATZn), the modem will re-configure to the
current port speed (38,400) and will operate normally.

The rule:  configure the modem and save the profile at the _same_
port speed you intend to use with your software.

Get the idea ??

TTFN,

Archie

--- CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3 R
 * Origin: Templar's Refuge #2 (2:250/501.11)
                                                      

From: Jacob Brewer <Jacob.Brewer@oasisgamingusa.com>

Does anyone know how to get memcheck 5.0 to compile with watcom 10/11, and
the phar lap TNT dos-extender 8.0?  

I have tried the instructions that came with memcheck, and *shocking* I must
be missing something.

Jacob B. Brewer
Software Engineer
Oasis Gaming USA
www.oasisgamingusa.com <http://www.oasisgamingusa.com> 


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                   

From: Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online.de

On 07.02.2004 shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:

> What's probably going on is that the program and the modem aren't
> agreeing on the way things should be set up.
> One thing that is critical is that the modem has to be set to 115200 bps
> and then told to *always* talk to the computer at that rate, regardless
> of what rate it is talking to the other modem at.

Even configuring the mailer to only 38200 bps without x00 gives the same
results. No way to become faster than 19200 bps.

> save it into the non-volatile RAM in the modem so I can just do an ATZ
> and have the modem be set the way I want it.

What happens then, if I switch the modem's power off? I do this whenever I
get the message "Bad host", which happens very often. I then get nervous,
thinking of my phone cost, having experienced, that modifications of the
following cfg variables have no positive influence on this bad-host-
behavior at all:

redialtimeout=30  # pause between redials
sockdelay=120  # Socket timeout
domainto=110  # Nameserver Timeout

Unfortunately, I have not the slightest ideas about comm stuff!

> the "time to wait for carrier" setting in any program needs to be set to
> 60 seconds. And if there's a setting for how long to wait for logon to
> complete before timing out, that needs to be set to 90 seconds. I was
> having trouble with that on my uucp connections. I had to find the (well
> hidden!) setting for time to wait for transfer to start and increase it.

My cfg is as follows:

*---*

## WATTCP.CFG
# This is the main configuration file used by the x_* applications
# and by the tcpip kernal.
$config="t-online"  # name of this configuration
color 14,1,0,3  # colors fgnd,bgnd, status fgnd, bgnd
statusline off  # controls statusline
offlinereader="..\xp\xp.exe"  # Offlinereader in use, but I have none.
ka9q=""  # path to ka9q/nos spool folder
TZ="-2"  # Timeoffset (positive value if west from Greenwich)
$vec=60  # or 65  # Interrupt used by packetdriver
$PORT=2F8  # Adress of serial port, is com2
$IRQ=3  # Interrupt of serial port
$BAUD=19200  # DTE speed (38400 or 115200 will not work!)
$packetdriver="ppp"  # "ppp" "slip","cslip", "OS2","ispa","cipa"
$user="???"  # User-Login
$pass="???"  # Password
$cid="520027022099"  # Caller-ID (ISDN Only)
$phone="0191011"  # Phonenumber
mbnr="0001"  # t-online special
initstring="at&FL2M2"  # Modem initstring  # "at&F" originally
dialstring="atdt"  # Dial-Prefix
redialcount=25  # number of redial attempts if busy
redialtimeout=30  # pause between redials
domainslist="t-online.de"  # Domain suffix
# Nameservers of T-Online:
nameserver="129.13.64.5"  # was bad host on 29.08.2003
# nameserver="194.25.2.129"
# nameserver="194.25.2.130"
# nameserver="194.25.2.131"
# nameserver="194.25.2.132"
#nameserver="145.253.2.75"   # IP of nameserver
popuser="???"  # Popserver User-ID
poppass="*******"  # ... and Password
popserver="pop.t-online.de"  # address of popmailserver
mailserver="mailto.t-online.de"  # address of smtp server
host="amanita.de"  # last host used
timeserver="0"  # Timeserver (if you know one)
# The HELO protocol sends an ID string to the mailserver. You should
# enable this protocol, if your mailserver refuses to accept messages.
# HELO=on sends the domainname as ID string which is usually accepted.
# If not, you should enter the internet name of your pc. If you don't
# know the name, you are out of luck and should ask your provider.
HELO=off  # off, on or internet name
redirect=  # Rewrite To: of incoming mail
$cc_ignore=0  # if > 0: ignore CC and BCC addresses
keepmail=0  # if > 0 keeps mail on server
$env_to="To: "  # used in ka9q mode only
BigMessage=0  # Interactive handling of Big Msgs.
##################################################
# you should not have to touch anything below
$tick=0       # Online timer (current)
$onlinesum=121670:05APR01 # Online timer (total)
netmask=0.0.0.0  # don't change
my_ip=217.2.191.27  # Modified during logon
gateway=0.0.0.0  # not needed for slip/ppp
sockdelay=120  # Socket timeout
domainto=110  # Nameserver Timeout
mss=512  #
$com_int=65  # Interrupt used by tcpport (originally was 14)

*---*

Any proposal, what to change?

> Before loading my mailer I run a batch file:
> COMMSET.BAT

Must I also change my $baud in my cfg, when running your commset.bat?

> You'll want to pay attention to the line that says Chip Type. If it lists
> anything other than 16550A, you may want to replace your serial port
> hardware. If it lists 8250, you *definitely* want to replace it!

It reports: "It is a 16550A SIO Chip."

Regards,

Peter

Peter Lindner, Aue Nr. 37, D-91177 Thalmaessing, Tel. +49-9173-1844



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                  

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 14 Feb 2004 at 21:56, Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online wrote:

> On 07.02.2004 shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:

> > save it into the non-volatile RAM in the modem so I can just do an ATZ
> > and have the modem be set the way I want it.
> 
> What happens then, if I switch the modem's power off?

The stuff stored in the modem's non-volatile RAM stay until you write 
over it, Which requires using the AT&W command.

> > the "time to wait for carrier" setting in any program needs to be set to
> > 60 seconds. And if there's a setting for how long to wait for logon to
> > complete before timing out, that needs to be set to 90 seconds. I was
> > having trouble with that on my uucp connections. I had to find the (well
> > hidden!) setting for time to wait for transfer to start and increase it.
> 
> My cfg is as follows:

<snip>

> Any proposal, what to change?

Didn't see anything that needed changing. Looks like you need to work 
on the settings for the modem.

> > Before loading my mailer I run a batch file:
> > COMMSET.BAT
> 
> Must I also change my $baud in my cfg, when running your commset.bat?

Nope, because the Lock command will prevent the program from changing 
the baud rate anyway. Unless it is ill behaved enough to mess with 
the UART directly.
 
> > You'll want to pay attention to the line that says Chip Type. If it lists
> > anything other than 16550A, you may want to replace your serial port
> > hardware. If it lists 8250, you *definitely* want to replace it!
> 
> It reports: "It is a 16550A SIO Chip."

That's good.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                            

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3F51A.D7E99470
Content-Type: text/plain

Well ... that's just about all programs, they all mess around with
the UART registers to set baud rates > 9600 (XT) or > 19200 (AT)
because, AFAIK, the Int 14h services do not cater for baud rates
higher than this. I wonder if that's the problem - the software here
relies on Int 14h services to set baud rate and hence cannot set
anything beyond 19200?

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]
> Sent:	Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:05 PM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	Re: X00 and other stuff, com speed with m$dos 6.22
> 
> On 14 Feb 2004 at 21:56, Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online wrote:
> 
> > On 07.02.2004 shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
> 
> > > save it into the non-volatile RAM in the modem so I can just do an ATZ
> > > and have the modem be set the way I want it.
> > 
> > What happens then, if I switch the modem's power off?
> 
> The stuff stored in the modem's non-volatile RAM stay until you write 
> over it, Which requires using the AT&W command.
> 
> > > the "time to wait for carrier" setting in any program needs to be set
> to
> > > 60 seconds. And if there's a setting for how long to wait for logon to
> > > complete before timing out, that needs to be set to 90 seconds. I was
> > > having trouble with that on my uucp connections. I had to find the
> (well
> > > hidden!) setting for time to wait for transfer to start and increase
> it.
> > 
> > My cfg is as follows:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Any proposal, what to change?
> 
> Didn't see anything that needed changing. Looks like you need to work 
> on the settings for the modem.
> 
> > > Before loading my mailer I run a batch file:
> > > COMMSET.BAT
> > 
> > Must I also change my $baud in my cfg, when running your commset.bat?
> 
> Nope, because the Lock command will prevent the program from changing 
> the baud rate anyway. Unless it is ill behaved enough to mess with 
> the UART directly.
>  
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<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Well ... that's just about all 
programs, they all mess around with</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">the UART registers to set baud 
rates > 9600 (XT) or > 19200 (AT)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">because, AFAIK, the Int 14h 
services do not cater for baud rates</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">higher than this. I wonder if 
that's the problem - the software here</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">relies on Int 14h services to set 
baud rate and hence cannot set</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">anything beyond 19200?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Joe.</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">From:  </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 
FACE="Arial">shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Sent:  </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 
FACE="Arial">Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:05 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">To:    </FONT></B> <FONT 
SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">opendos@delorie.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Subject:       </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Re: X00 and other stuff, com speed with m$dos 6.22</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">On 14 Feb 2004 at 21:56, 
Lindner-Thalmaessing@t-online wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> On 07.02.2004 shadow@shadowgard.com 
wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > save it into the non-volatile RAM in the 
modem so I can just do an ATZ</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > and have the modem be set the way I 
want it.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> What happens then, if I switch the modem's 
power off?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The stuff stored in the modem's non-volatile RAM 
stay until you write </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">over it, Which requires using the AT&W 
command.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > the "time to wait for carrier" 
setting in any program needs to be set to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > 60 seconds. And if there's a setting 
for how long to wait for logon to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > complete before timing out, that needs 
to be set to 90 seconds. I was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > having trouble with that on my uucp 
connections. I had to find the (well</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > hidden!) setting for time to wait for 
transfer to start and increase it.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> My cfg is as follows:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"><snip></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> Any proposal, what to change?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Didn't see anything that needed changing. Looks 
like you need to work </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">on the settings for the modem.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > Before loading my mailer I run a batch 
file:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> > COMMSET.BAT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> Must I also change my $baud in my cfg, when 
running your commset.bat?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Nope, because the Lock command will prevent the 
program from changing </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">the baud rate anyway. Unless it is ill behaved 
enough to mess with </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">the UART directly.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"> </FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-------- snip --------</FONT>
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From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 17 Feb 2004 at 16:56, da Silva, Joe wrote:

> 
> Well ... that's just about all programs, they all mess around with 
> the UART registers to set baud rates > 9600 (XT) or > 19200 (AT) 
> because, AFAIK, the Int 14h services do not cater for baud rates 
> higher than this. I wonder if that's the problem - the software here 
> relies on Int 14h services to set baud rate and hence cannot set 
> anything beyond 19200? 

That's *why* I suggested X00. If the progran is using Int 14 services 
as opposed to directly accessing the UART, then X00 will *ignore the 
command to change the baud rate and leave it at what it was "locked" 
at.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 18 Feb 2004 at 13:10, da Silva, Joe wrote:

> 
> Hmmm ... If the program _doesn't_ mess around with the 
> UART registers, it _can't_ use anything higher than 19k2. 

Sure it can. If it uses the INT 14 calls to set the baud rate and to 
send bytes toand receive bytes from the serial port, then it will not 
*know* what rate the UART is actually running at. 

The *program* can think it's running at 19.2k. But X00 can run it at 
any rate it feels like.

Also, if you've got source or can find where the baud rate divisors 
are stored in a program, you can make a program that directly 
accesses UART registers work at higher baud rates. A common move was 
to replace the values for rates below 300 with those for rates 
*above* 19.2k


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

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Hmmm ... If the program _doesn't_ mess around with the
UART registers, it _can't_ use anything higher than 19k2.
If it _does_ mess around with them, then it will bypass X00
anyway. So, how can X00 help solve the "I can't get more
than 19200 baud" problem? I know there has been lots of
discussion involving lots of software, etc. that I'm unfamiliar
with, but I thought the original problem was an inability to
go beyond 19k2. Perhaps the software in question can be
configured to _either_ use Int 14h to set baud rate or mess
around with the UART registers. In that case, it needs to be
configured to do the latter, because AFAIK, Int 14h doesn't
support > 19200 baud (or 9600 for XT). Or have I missed
something here ... ?

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:32 AM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	RE: X00 and other stuff, com speed with m$dos 6.22
> 
> On 17 Feb 2004 at 16:56, da Silva, Joe wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Well ... that's just about all programs, they all mess around with 
> > the UART registers to set baud rates > 9600 (XT) or > 19200 (AT) 
> > because, AFAIK, the Int 14h services do not cater for baud rates 
> > higher than this. I wonder if that's the problem - the software here 
> > relies on Int 14h services to set baud rate and hence cannot set 
> > anything beyond 19200? 
> 
> That's *why* I suggested X00. If the progran is using Int 14 services 
> as opposed to directly accessing the UART, then X00 will *ignore the 
> command to change the baud rate and leave it at what it was "locked" 
> at.
> 
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at krypton dot rain dot com
> 

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<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Hmmm ... If the program _doesn't_ 
mess around with the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">UART registers, it _can't_ use 
anything higher than 19k2.</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">If it _does_ mess around with 
them, then it will bypass X00</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">anyway. So, how can X00 help 
solve the "I can't get more</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">than 19200 baud" problem? I 
know there has been lots of</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">discussion involving lots of 
software, etc. that I'm unfamiliar</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">with, but I thought the original 
problem was an inability to</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">go beyond 19k2. Perhaps the 
software in question can be</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">configured to _either_ use Int 
14h to set baud rate or mess</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">around with the UART registers. 
In that case, it needs to be</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">configured to do the latter, 
because AFAIK, Int 14h doesn't</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">support > 19200 baud (or 9600 
for XT). Or have I missed</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">something here ... ?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Joe.</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">From:  </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 
FACE="Arial">shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Sent:  </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 
FACE="Arial">Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:32 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">To:    </FONT></B> <FONT 
SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">opendos@delorie.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Subject:       </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">RE: X00 and other stuff, com speed with m$dos 6.22</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">On 17 Feb 2004 at 16:56, da Silva, Joe 
wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> Well ... that's just about all programs, 
they all mess around with </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> the UART registers to set baud rates > 
9600 (XT) or > 19200 (AT) </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> because, AFAIK, the Int 14h services do not 
cater for baud rates </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> higher than this. I wonder if that's the 
problem - the software here </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> relies on Int 14h services to set baud rate 
and hence cannot set </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> anything beyond 19200? </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">That's *why* I suggested X00. If the progran is 
using Int 14 services </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">as opposed to directly accessing the UART, then 
X00 will *ignore the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">command to change the baud rate and leave it at 
what it was "locked" </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">at.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">shadow at krypton dot rain dot com</FONT>
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 DJ: > Hmmm ... If the program _doesn't_ mess around with the
 DJ: > UART registers, it _can't_ use anything higher than 19k2.
 DJ: > If it _does_ mess around with them, then it will bypass X00
 DJ: > anyway. So, how can X00 help solve the "I can't get more
 DJ: > than 19200 baud" problem?

I know I'm jumping in mid-thread, but X00 works great here locked at 115200
with callers from 14,400 thru 31,200 Baud. I load it Deferred then Enable and
Disable as needed by the individual Doors:

=== Cut ===
Rem Fossil Driver (BBS Doors) TSR (Disabled)
Rem XU Capture:ON to Enable Hooks, XU Capture:OFF to Disable (DE Load)
Logmsg Loading TSR program :  X00.EXE
X00.EXE E 1=2F8,IRQ3 F=4 B,1,115200 DEFER
=== Cut ===

-- 
Be well,

 : Ben   aka cMech    http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/m/cmech617/
 :
 +    WildCat! Board 24/7  (337) 232-4155  33.6kBps 8,N,1
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-040120 r0212
 * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium Repository (1:393/68)
                                                                                

From: "da Silva, Joe" <Joe.daSilva@emailmetering.com>

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Ah, I see ... if the program doesn't support higher baud rates
_and_ it uses Int 14h to set the baud rate, X00 can provide
other options without the program's knowledge. Gotcha!

Joe.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, February 18, 2004 6:03 PM
> To:	opendos@delorie.com
> Subject:	RE: X00 and other stuff, com speed with m$dos 6.22
> 
> On 18 Feb 2004 at 13:10, da Silva, Joe wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hmmm ... If the program _doesn't_ mess around with the 
> > UART registers, it _can't_ use anything higher than 19k2. 
> 
> Sure it can. If it uses the INT 14 calls to set the baud rate and to 
> send bytes toand receive bytes from the serial port, then it will not 
> *know* what rate the UART is actually running at. 
> 
> The *program* can think it's running at 19.2k. But X00 can run it at 
> any rate it feels like.
> 
> Also, if you've got source or can find where the baud rate divisors 
> are stored in a program, you can make a program that directly 
> accesses UART registers work at higher baud rates. A common move was 
> to replace the values for rates below 300 with those for rates 
> *above* 19.2k
> 
> 
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at krypton dot rain dot com
> 

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<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Ah, I see ... if the program 
doesn't support higher baud rates</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">_and_ it uses Int 14h to set the 
baud rate, X00 can provide</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">other options without the 
program's knowledge. Gotcha!</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Joe.</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">From:  </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 
FACE="Arial">shadow@shadowgard.com [SMTP:shadow@shadowgard.com]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Sent:  </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 
FACE="Arial">Wednesday, February 18, 2004 6:03 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">To:    </FONT></B> <FONT 
SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">opendos@delorie.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Subject:       </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">RE: X00 and other stuff, com speed with m$dos 6.22</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">On 18 Feb 2004 at 13:10, da Silva, Joe 
wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> Hmmm ... If the program _doesn't_ mess 
around with the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">> UART registers, it _can't_ use anything 
higher than 19k2. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sure it can. If it uses the INT 14 calls to set 
the baud rate and to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">send bytes toand receive bytes from the serial 
port, then it will not </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">*know* what rate the UART is actually running at. 
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The *program* can think it's running at 19.2k. But 
X00 can run it at </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">any rate it feels like.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Also, if you've got source or can find where the 
baud rate divisors </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">are stored in a program, you can make a program 
that directly </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">accesses UART registers work at higher baud 
rates. A common move was </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">to replace the values for rates below 300 with 
those for rates </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">*above* 19.2k</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">shadow at krypton dot rain dot com</FONT>
</P>
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From: Florian Xaver <flox@drdos.org>

Hi!

Could somebody send me the license of Dr-DOS 7.03?

Thanks!!
-- 
Florian Xaver <http://www.flox.at.tf>
<http://www.drdos.org> <http://www.denk-fanpage.at.tf>






--- Internet Rex 2.29
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  Re: License
  By: Florian Xaver to All on Tue Feb 24 2004 08:15 am

 > From: Florian Xaver <flox@drdos.org>
 > 
 > Hi!
 > 
 > Could somebody send me the license of Dr-DOS 7.03?
 > 
 > Thanks!!
 > -- 
 > Florian Xaver <http://www.flox.at.tf>
 > <http://www.drdos.org> <http://www.denk-fanpage.at.tf>

Just curious, are you looking for the end user license agreement, or a pirated
copy of Dr. Dos?


Gregg Somes - SysOp
Alleycat! BBS
alleycat.ath.cx  (www.mortifis.com)

--- SBBSecho 2.00-Win32
 * Origin: AlleyCat! BBS Surrey, BC (alleycat.ath.cx) (1:153/304)
                                                                               

|Just curious, are you looking for the end user license agreement, or a pirated
|copy of Dr. Dos?
+-[GS=>FX]
 
Wasn't it available free, on the Internet?
 
Mike
 
##MMR 2.61(beta).  !link GS 03-06-04 16:50 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                      

  Re: License
  By: Mike Powell to Gregg Somes on Sun Mar 07 2004 09:24 am

Mike was overheard speaking of Dr. DOS

 > Wasn't it available free, on the Internet?
 >  
 > Mike

Seems to me that Dr. DOS is $29.00 USD for a single Desktop User.  Extended
capabilities and features a sold with various licenses.  Please visit
www.drdos.com for more information.  FreeDOS can be downloaded from
www.freedos.com or various mirror sites.  FreeDOS is of course, free.


Gregg Somes - SysOp
Alleycat! BBS
alleycat.ath.cx  (www.mortifis.com)

--- SBBSecho 2.00-Win32
 * Origin: AlleyCat! BBS Surrey, BC (alleycat.ath.cx) (1:153/304)
                 

|Seems to me that Dr. DOS is $29.00 USD for a single Desktop User.  Extended
|capabilities and features a sold with various licenses.  Please visit
|www.drdos.com for more information.  FreeDOS can be downloaded from
|www.freedos.com or various mirror sites.  FreeDOS is of course, free.
+-[GS=>MP]
 
Originally, it was not.  Originally, you only had to pay if you were not a
"single desktop user," or if you wanted a copy on CD instead of downloading
the disk images.  This goes back to when it was called OpenDOS 7.01, and
lasted through when DR-DOS 7.03 was originally released.  I got my copy from
their official site a few years back.  That was back when it was still being
"marketed" by Caldera/Thin Clients/Lineo.
 
There is also a version called DR-DOS-E, for "Enhanced."  It is based off
of the 7.01 source code, which was released some time back.  I forget what
version they are up to now (7.01.??), but it now includes FAT-32 natively...
that is, without a driver.  I believe that project can be found on
Sourceforge.
 
Mike
 


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                       

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

Hi folks,

I assume that quite a few DOS users inhere use JP Software's otherwise
excellent command processor 4DOS.COM as replacement for COMMAND.COM
or FREECOM.

It happens that with one of their recent builds (most probably 124 --
current build is 125) they silently but deliberately removed support
for the startup option /Y in order to invoke the batch file debugger.

/Y is supported by COMMAND.COM since MS-DOS 6.20, PC DOS 6.3, late
issues of Novell DOS 7, and by DR-DOS 7.02 and higher, and (like the
earlier /D) is used to communicate the user selected skip- (F5) and
single-stepping-(F8)-modes from the DOS BIOS to the shell.

If you had pressed F8 during startup and were single-stepping
CONFIG.SYS, the DOS BIOS would automatically add a /Y to the shell
command line, so that the invoked shell can continue to single-step
through AUTOEXEC.BAT. In particular, this is important when you
cannot manually edit the configuration files, for example, during
CD-ROM boot or such.

(NB. Of course, similar means also existed in the initial version of
Novell DOS 7 and in OpenDOS 7.01, but they didn't used the command
line interface, but communicated the status of the boot mode through
special settings retrieved via the pre-environment. This internal
interface is still supported in all recent issues of DR-DOS and
COMMAND.COM, so that you can easily mix different versions.
Unfortunately, 4DOS does not query this internal interface, although
this would have some advantages as it is more flexible and can report
some further single-stepping sub-modes to the shell so it could be
even more seamlessly integrated than just using /D and /Y. Also, this
interface could still continue to work, even if support for the option
/Y would be permanently removed in 4DOS. On the other hand, this
will only work for the DR-DOS family, as MS-DOS/PC DOS only support
the /Y and /D trick.)

/Y can also be used to single-step normal batchfiles, and according
to Rex Conn, head of JP Software, several system administrators did
complain that users would 'misuse' /Y in order to bypass some stuff
in the startup batchjobs, hence support for this option was silently
removed in one of the most recent builds (it's still in the help for
build 124, but doesn't work any more, in build 125 it has also been
removed from the help).
That they are thereby breaking an IMHO vital part of DOS compatibility
and cause significant inconveniences to users who have to single-step
their startup files in an emergency case does not seem to occur to
them it seems...

So, if you are a user of 4DOS, this mail is intended to inform you of
this modification, which otherwise may escape you until the next time
you have to single-step the configuration files and find this to be
no longer working...

If you do not agree with the change, I would like to encourage you
to voice your opinion in JP Software's support forum and ask them
to reenable the previous behaviour, just as I did. Or, if you prefer
that this option be removed, you can also state this there. ;-)

Otherwise, I'd like to suggest that you keep hold of the last
4DOS build which still has this option enabled. (I think, it was
4DOS 7.50 build 122, but right now I am not completely sure about
this, as I didn't had any time to follow and update every new build
in the past months myself, so I will have to find out myself now
as well.)

Hope it helps to keep you from stepping into a trap by "upgrading"
to the latest build.

Greetings,

 Matthias

-- 
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org

"Programs are poems for computers."



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
             

  Re: FYI: JP Software removed support for single-stepping option /Y in 4DOS
  By: Matthias Paul to All on Tue Mar 09 2004 03:36 am

 > I assume that quite a few DOS users inhere use JP Software's otherwise
 > excellent command processor 4DOS.COM as replacement for COMMAND.COM
 > or FREECOM.
 > 
 > It happens that with one of their recent builds (most probably 124 --
 > current build is 125) they silently but deliberately removed support
 > for the startup option /Y in order to invoke the batch file debugger.

FATAL ERROR - THE SYSTEM IS HALTED

 Ttyl :-),
         Al
 
--- SBBSecho 2.00-Linux
 * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, B.C. Canada (1:132/500.19)
                                                                                                  

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

On 2004-03-13, DJ Delorie wrote:

Hi DJ and all,

>> [Somehow, the mail seems to have vanished on it's way into
>> the list, so I am resending it.]
>
> This is the second copy I've seen.

Sorry for wasting bandwidth with the double post, then. As it
looks now, the problem must have been on the downlink from the
list back to me...
The original message was CC:ed into the FreeDOS user list as well,
but I could still not find it in the digests there after a couple
of days, so I assumed the problem was on the uplink side.

BTW. Support for 4DOS /Y must have been removed even before 4.50
build 123. I just tried build 100 and it didn't seem to work there
any more already (unless I'm doing something wrong). I remember I
also tested it with the initial release of 4.50 when it was released
and then it still worked. Anyone here using a build before 100,
so we can narrow down when exactly support for /Y has been removed?
(All you'd need to test is if either the F7 or F8 single-stepping mode
is propagated to 4DOS when it loads, so that the batch file debugger
gets invoked for AUTOEXEC.BAT.)

Greetings,

 Matthias

-- 
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org

"Programs are poems for computers."



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                

From: Matthias Paul <Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>

[Somehow, the mail seems to have vanished on it's way into
the list, so I am resending it.]

Hi folks,

I assume that quite a few DOS users inhere use JP Software's
otherwise excellent command processor 4DOS.COM as replacement
for COMMAND.COM or FREECOM.

It happens that with one of their recent builds of 4DOS 4.50
(most probably 124 -- the current build is 125) they silently
but deliberately removed support for the startup option /Y in
order to invoke the batch file debugger.

/Y is supported by COMMAND.COM since MS-DOS 6.2, PC DOS 6.3, late
issues of Novell DOS 7, and by DR-DOS 7.02 and higher, and (like
the earlier /D) is used to communicate the user selected skip-
(F5) and single-stepping-(F8)-modes from the DOS BIOS to the shell.

If you had pressed F8 during startup and were single-stepping
CONFIG.SYS, the DOS BIOS would automatically add a /Y to the shell
command line, so that the invoked shell could continue to single-step
through AUTOEXEC.BAT. In particular, this is important when you
cannot manually edit the configuration files, for example, during
CD-ROM boot or such.

(NB. Similar means also existed in the initial version of
Novell DOS 7 and in OpenDOS 7.01, but they didn't used the
command line interface, but communicated the status of the
boot mode through special settings retrieved via the pre-
environment. This internal interface is still supported in
all recent issues of DR-DOS and COMMAND.COM, so that you can
easily mix different kernel and shell versions. Unfortunately,
4DOS does not query this internal interface, although this
would have some advantages as it is more flexible and can
report some further sub-modes to the shell so it could be
even more seamlessly integrated than just using /D and /Y.
Also, this interface could still continue to work, even if
support for the option /Y would be permanently removed in
4DOS. On the other hand, this will only work for the DR-DOS
family, as MS-DOS/PC DOS only support the /Y and /D trick.)

/Y can also be used to single-step normal batchfiles, and
according to Rex Conn, head of JP Software, several system
administrators did complain that users would 'misuse' /Y in
order to bypass some stuff in the startup batchjobs, hence
support for this option was silently removed in one of the
most recent builds (it's still in the help for build 124,
but doesn't work there any more, in build 125 it has also
been removed from the help).
Unfortunately, that they are thereby breaking an IMHO vital
part of DOS compatibility and cause significant inconveniences
to users who have to single-step their startup files in an
emergency case does not seem to occur to them it seems...

So, if you are a user of 4DOS, this mail is intended to inform
you of this modification, which otherwise may escape you until
the next time you have to single-step the configuration files
in an emergency case and find it to be no longer working...

If you do not agree with the change, I would like to encourage
you to voice your opinion in JP Software's support forum and
ask them to reenable the previous behaviour, just as I and several
other users did - so far without success, though. Or, if
you prefer that this option be removed, you can also state
this there. After all, that's democracy... ;-)

Otherwise, I'd like to suggest that you keep hold of the last
4DOS build which still has this option enabled. (I think, it
was 4DOS 7.50 build 122, but right now I am not completely sure
about this, as I didn't had any time to follow and update every
new build in the past few months myself, so I will have to find
out myself now as well.)

Hope it helps to keep you from stepping into a trap by "upgrading"
to the latest build.

Greetings,

 Matthias

-- 
<mailto:Matthias.Paul@post.rwth-aachen.de>; <mailto:mpaul@drdos.org>
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs180/mpdokeng.html; http://mpaul.drdos.org

"Programs are poems for computers."



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Aachen University of Technology (RWTH), Germany (1:2320/105.999)
                                   

From: DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com>


> [Somehow, the mail seems to have vanished on it's way into
> the list, so I am resending it.]

This is the second copy I've seen.


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
 

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:41:41 +0300 (MSK), Arkady V.Belousov wrote:

> 12-Mar-2004 21:07 _dj@delorie.com (DJ Delorie) wrote to opendos@delorie.com:

>>> [Somehow, the mail seems to have vanished on it's way into
>>> the list, so I am resending it.]
> DD> This is the second copy I've seen.

> In opendos@ this is first copy for me.

I received both copies.
(Just to let you know, maybe this can help tracking down some message
delivery problem with the list.)

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                            

From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark@belous.munic.msk.su>

Hi!

12-íÁÒ-2004 21:07 _dj@delorie.com (DJ Delorie) wrote to opendos@delorie.com:

>> [Somehow, the mail seems to have vanished on it's way into
>> the list, so I am resending it.]
DD> This is the second copy I've seen.

     In opendos@ this is first copy for me.





--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                        

From: Florian Xaver <flox@drdos.org>

Hi!

It's version number is 8.0. The improvements: minimum.
And no single user version.

Look at the page of devicelogics.

Bye, Flo
-- 
Florian Xaver <http://www.flox.at.tf>
<http://www.drdos.org> <http://www.denk-fanpage.at.tf>







--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                        

From: Jim Stevenson <jims@eos.arc.nasa.gov>

When will it be available?

what is new about it?

What is the HP?

--

If you must quote me, please put your comments first.
I have already listened to mine.

I read email with speech.
So it is not possible to scroll past the quotes without listening to them 
again,
to quickly get to the new information.


Thanks much again as always.
Jim


--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                      

From: Florian Xaver <flox@drdos.org>

Hi!

A collection of interesting articles (one about the end of Dr-DOS on 
microsoft-watch) on www.drdos.org .

Bye, Flo
-- 
Florian Xaver <http://www.flox.at.tf>
<http://www.drdos.org> <http://www.denk-fanpage.at.tf>







--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                    

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

Hi Jim,

According to the information at DeviceLogics website, DR-DOS 8.0
is already available. There is no single-user license. 5 user
license costs $200.

The new kernel supports FAT32 filesystem and big hard disks (over
8 Gb). There are no clear information about other updates.

Hope this helps,

Michal

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:34:05 -0800 (PST), Jim Stevenson wrote:

> When will it be available?

> what is new about it?

> What is the HP?



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                  

From: "Ric Melton" <bearport@comcast.net>

I received mail from Bryce at DeviceLogics several days ago.  He told me
that the version of DR-DOS 8.0, available now, was done to satisfy OEM
requests.  Apparently, the OEM partners were willing to accept the operating
system 'as is'.  Bryce also wrote that DR-DOS 8.0 will not be available to
end-users until it has completed the test stage.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>
To: <opendos@delorie.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: DOS 8.0


> Hi Jim,
>
> According to the information at DeviceLogics website, DR-DOS 8.0
> is already available. There is no single-user license. 5 user
> license costs $200.
>
> The new kernel supports FAT32 filesystem and big hard disks (over
> 8 Gb). There are no clear information about other updates.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Michal
>
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:34:05 -0800 (PST), Jim Stevenson wrote:
>
> > When will it be available?
>
> > what is new about it?
>
> > What is the HP?
>
>




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                

From: "Ric Melton" <bearport@comcast.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C41AE4.7688D0C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The .IMG extension is used by the diskcopy command in order to create diskettes 
from disk images.

Example Discopy test.img a: 

would create a diskette (to drive a:) from an image file called test.img.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: psi2006@yahoo.com.ar 
  To: opendos@delorie.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:17 AM
  Subject: .IMG extension


  Hi there,

  http://www.au.horde.org/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/PNW/
  PNWTUTOR.IMG - Personal NetWare tutorial

  Anybody would help me with the .IMG extension there.
  It couldn't be recognized by Paint or PaintShop nor IE
  as first intent.

  I believe it should be an image disk file.

  File is dated 1998 so not an Internet ancient time.


  Any hint ?

  Thanks





  Rafael




------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C41AE4.7688D0C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The .IMG extension is used by the diskcopy command 

in order to create diskettes from disk images.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Example Discopy test.img a: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>would create a diskette (to drive a:) from an 
image 
file called test.img.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: 
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 

  <A title=psi2006@yahoo.com.ar 
  href="mailto:psi2006@yahoo.com.ar">psi2006@yahoo.com.ar</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=opendos@delorie.com 
  href="mailto:opendos@delorie.com">opendos@delorie.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 05, 2004 7:17 
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> .IMG extension</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Hi 
  there,<BR><BR></FONT><A 
  href="http://www.au.horde.org/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/PNW/"><FONT 
  face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3>http://www.au.horde.org/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/PNW/</FONT></A><BR><FONT 
  face="Times New Roman" size=3>PNWTUTOR.IMG - Personal NetWare 
  tutorial<BR><BR>Anybody would help me with the .IMG extension 
  there.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>It couldn't 
  be recognized by Paint or PaintShop nor IE</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>as first 
  intent.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I believe it 

  should be an image disk file.<BR><BR>File is dated 1998 so not an Internet 
  ancient time.<BR><BR><BR>Any hint ?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3>Thanks</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </DIV>
  <DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR>Rafael</FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C41AE4.7688D0C0--

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                             

From: <psi2006@yahoo.com.ar>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C41AFF.861AC320
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi there,

http://www.au.horde.org/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/PNW/
PNWTUTOR.IMG - Personal NetWare tutorial

Anybody would help me with the .IMG extension there.
It couldn't be recognized by Paint or PaintShop nor IE
as first intent.

I believe it should be an image disk file.

File is dated 1998 so not an Internet ancient time.


Any hint ?

Thanks





Rafael





------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C41AFF.861AC320
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Hi 
there,<BR><BR></FONT><A 
href="http://www.au.horde.org/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/PNW/"><FONT 
face="Times New Roman" 
size=3>http://www.au.horde.org/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/PNW/</FONT></A><BR><FONT 
face="Times New Roman" size=3>PNWTUTOR.IMG - Personal NetWare 
tutorial<BR><BR>Anybody would help me with the .IMG extension 
there.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>It couldn't be 

recognized by Paint or PaintShop nor IE</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>as first 
intent.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I believe it 
should be an image disk file.<BR><BR>File is dated 1998 so not an Internet 
ancient time.<BR><BR><BR>Any hint ?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=3>Thanks</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR>Rafael</FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C41AFF.861AC320--

--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: psi2006@yahoo.com.ar (1:2320/105.999)
                                                    

Hi Ric,

    Responding to a post in the ALT_DOS area:
    On Monday April 05 2004 at 08:03,
    Ric Melton [1:2320/105.999] wrote to All,
    about: Re: .IMG extension

 RM> The .IMG extension is used by the diskcopy command in order to create
 RM> diskettes from disk images.

 RM> Example Discopy test.img a:

Here is your problem!  The example _should_ read:

    DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:

You cannot load that file into Paint, PaintShop, InternetExplorer, or any
other program.  Presuming that A: is your bootable diskette drive, using
DiskCopy will take the contents of the TEST.IMG file and copy it sector by
sector to the A: drive diskette.

 RM> would create a diskette (to drive a:) from an image file called
 RM> test.img.

 RM>   http://www.au.horde.org/pub/drdos/DR-DOS.702/PNW/
 RM>   PNWTUTOR.IMG - Personal NetWare tutorial

 RM>   Anybody would help me with the .IMG extension there.
 RM>   It couldn't be recognized by Paint or PaintShop nor IE
 RM>   as first intent.

 RM>   I believe it should be an image disk file.

Yes, it is an image file, but not for the purpose that you are presuming it
to be...  This type of image file is for creating disk files to be
recognizable by a specific operating system -- DR-DOS v7.02!

 RM>   File is dated 1998 so not an Internet ancient time.

 RM>   Any hint ?

Have you installed the DR-DOS operating system on your computer?

           Cheers ... Gerald

... If we learn from our mistakes, I'm about due for my PhD.
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-30512 [msg of April 05, 2004]
 * Origin: The rear of the ship is burning, Tom said sternly (1:342/512)
                                                           

Gerald,
> Here is your problem!  The example _should_ read:
> DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:

>  This type of image file is for creating disk files to be
> recognizable by a specific operating system -- DR-DOS v7.02!

   Is that built in to any other versions of the diskcopy command, do you know?
 I'm more used to useing rawrite.exe for copying images like that...



Jame


--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: http://bbs.rocasa.org (1:120/546)
                                                                          

Hello Jame,

    Responding to a post in the ALT_DOS area:
    On Tuesday April 06 2004 at 06:12,
    Jame Clay [1:120/546] wrote to Gerald Miller,
    about: .IMG extension

 >> Here is your problem!  The example _should_ read:
 >> DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:

 >>  This type of image file is for creating disk files to be
 >> recognizable by a specific operating system -- DR-DOS v7.02!

 JC>    Is that built in to any other versions of the diskcopy command, do
 JC> you know? I'm more used to useing rawrite.exe for copying images like
 JC> that...

Ohhh, you want to get "technical" beyond my understanding....  <g>

The diskcopy command is used to copy each sector of a file to a diskette.
This is most useful if you are running one operating system (MS-DOS v6.22,
for example) and you want to create a bootable system disk to do an install
for another operating system, such as DR-DOS v7.02 for example.  (Win98
uses a similar technique for its installation.)

Using any version of diskcopy (as far as I know) will permit you to copy
the System files (IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, PCDOS.SYS, etc., -- files with Hidden,
Readonly, System attributes) to the proper tracks in order for the diskette
to be bootable.

I am unfamiliar with RAWRITE.EXE, so I cannot verify your technique of it's
use.  I just now did a web search for rawrite and I suspect that your use
of it in this manner would work and I also found a number of other programs
that would accomplish the same task.

I have to presume that the example "DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:" was provided
because _most_ operating systems have a diskcopy command.  The bottom line
would be: use whatever command that works for you to create the System
disk(s)....

           Cheers ... Gerald

... The decision doesn't have to be logical, it was unanimous.
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-30512
 * Origin: Fasten your seatbelt ... I wanna try something. (1:342/512)
                           

 GM> I have to presume that the example "DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:" was
 GM> provided because _most_ operating systems have a diskcopy
 GM> command.  The bottom line would be: use whatever command that
 GM> works for you to create the System disk(s)....

FWIW: i'm unaware of diskcopy being able to read disk image files and 
translating them to a read disk(ette)... only RAWRITE and a few others can do 
this, TTBOMK...

)\/(ark

 
* Origin:  (1:3634/12)
                                                             

Mark,

You wrote to Gerald Miller on 07.04.04 about ".IMG extension":

GM>> I have to presume that the example "DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:" was
GM>> provided because _most_ operating systems have a diskcopy
GM>> command.  The bottom line would be: use whatever command that
GM>> works for you to create the System disk(s)....

ml> FWIW: i'm unaware of diskcopy being able to read disk image files
ml> and translating them to a read disk(ette)... only RAWRITE and a
ml> few others can do this, TTBOMK...

Then I would suggest that you read the DOSBOOK entry regarding  
the use of DR-DOS's DISKCOPY command for v7.03.  Alternatively,  
pick up a copy of the old DR-DOS v6.0 handbook of 1991 time and  
read pages 196-198.

TTFN,

Archie

--- CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3 R
 * Origin: Templar's Refuge #2 (2:250/501.11)
                                                                                     

GM>>> I have to presume that the example "DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:"
GM>>> was provided because _most_ operating systems have a
GM>>> diskcopy command.  The bottom line would be: use whatever
GM>>> command that works for you to create the System disk(s)....

ml>> FWIW: i'm unaware of diskcopy being able to read disk image
ml>> files and translating them to a read disk(ette)... only
ml>> RAWRITE and a few others can do this, TTBOMK...

 AS> Then I would suggest that you read the DOSBOOK entry

i don't have anything called DOSBOOK...

 AS> regarding the use of DR-DOS's DISKCOPY command for v7.03.

and i don't use DR-DOS ;)  that they enhanced this command is another thing... 
in the normal stream of matters, diskcopy usually doesn't do this... guess 
maybe i learned something...

 AS> Alternatively, pick up a copy of the old DR-DOS v6.0 handbook
 AS> of 1991 time and read pages 196-198.

i might also suggest that others specify which diskcopy command they are 
talking about to avoid problems and misunderstandings in the future ;)


)\/(ark

 
* Origin:  (1:3634/12)
                                                                             

Mark,

You wrote on 08.04.04 about ".IMG extension":


[hack]
AS>> Alternatively, pick up a copy of the old DR-DOS v6.0 handbook
AS>> of 1991 time and read pages 196-198.

ml> i might also suggest that others specify which diskcopy command
ml> they are talking about to avoid problems and misunderstandings in
ml> the future ;)

a.  This Echo happens to be ALT_DOS which is:-

=================== quote on ==================
     OPENDOS, FREEDOS, and Alternative DOS discussion area

           This Conference is dedicated to: Discussion of the Caldera
          OpenDOS and the FreeDOS operating systems. Posting and discussion
          of experiences, requests for help, posting of code snippets,
          etc are encouraged. Other free DOS variants are welcomed,
          such as DOSLinux. Limit MS-DOS discussion to comparison
          of features, compatibility, etc, with an Alt-DOS.
======================= quote off ================

And has been such since the days when NW-DOS was transferred to  
Caldera's hands.  Therefore, there's a high probability that the  
contributors will be querying - or answering queries related to -  
items other than M$DO$ or PCDO$ generated.

b.  My response was directed to you, as you'd obviously missed  
the Echo subject.

EOT.

TTFN,

Archie

--- CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3 R
 * Origin: Templar's Refuge #2 (2:250/501.11)
                              

 AS> [hack]
AS>>> Alternatively, pick up a copy of the old DR-DOS v6.0
AS>>> handbook of 1991 time and read pages 196-198.

ml>> i might also suggest that others specify which diskcopy
ml>> command they are talking about to avoid problems and
ml>> misunderstandings in the future ;)

 AS> a.  This Echo happens to be ALT_DOS which is:-

 AS> =================== quote on ==================
 AS>      OPENDOS, FREEDOS, and Alternative DOS discussion area

right and i do run /alternative/ DOS'... one being the 4DOS command.com 
replacement... another is the DOS in the OS/2 VDMs in which i also use 4DOS ;)  
and then there's the stuff i run with DOSemu under linux from time to time OB-)

 AS>            This Conference is dedicated to: Discussion of the Caldera
 AS>           OpenDOS and the FreeDOS operating systems. Posting
 AS> and discussion
 AS>           of experiences, requests for help, posting of code snippets,
 AS>           etc are encouraged. Other free DOS variants are welcomed,
 AS>           such as DOSLinux. Limit MS-DOS discussion to comparison
 AS>           of features, compatibility, etc, with an Alt-DOS.
 AS> ======================= quote off ================

that seems to cover some of the stuff that i run here...

 AS> And has been such since the days when NW-DOS was transferred
 AS> to Caldera's hands.  Therefore, there's a high probability
 AS> that the contributors will be querying - or answering queries
 AS> related to - items other than M$DO$ or PCDO$ generated.

did i mention MS or PC dos? i didn't think so ;)

 AS> b.  My response was directed to you, as you'd obviously
 AS> missed the Echo subject.

whatever <<GG>>

 AS> EOT.

'k

)\/(ark

 
* Origin:  (1:3634/12)
                                                                          

Hi Gerald!

> I have to presume that the example "DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:" was provided
> because _most_ operating systems have a diskcopy command.  The bottom line
> would be: use whatever command that works for you to create the System
> disk(s)....

   Well, that's the thing;  I'm used to useing rawrite.exe to copy a floppy to
an image file, or an image file to a floppy, because that's the only way I knew 
of to do that.  From the exemple given;  apparantly a version of DR Dos can 
just use the diskcopy command to do the same thing, & I was wondering if it's 
doable in the same way in other versions of DOS...



Jame


--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: http://bbs.rocasa.org (1:120/546)
                                                                      

Hi ppl's,



I need to install DOS 6.22 onto a 20gb hard drive, I'm well aware that 
it'll need 10 2gb partitions for it to see the whole drive, this isn't a 
problem.


The computer has no problems recognising the drive (& I've had 
Mandrake installed on this machine before utilising the full capacity), 
but after partitioning with Partition Magic 8, DOS only sees the first 
m2GB partition & point blank refuses to see the extended partition as 
anything larger than 1.5gb & will not allow it to be partitioned into 
logical volumes.


I'm aware that FreeDOS can see the lot (did an install with it), 
however, there are niggling compatibility issues with it, so I really need 
DOS 6.22 to be installed.


Anyone have any pointers on this ?


Cheers,


Lance






---
 * Origin: Landover Amiga BBS - http://commodore.thebbs.org (3:712/313)
                                                   

Hi Lance,

    Responding to a post in the ALT_DOS area:
    On Saturday April 10 2004 at 09:34,
    Lance Lyon [3:712/313] wrote to All,
    about: DOS on large hard drives

 LL> I need to install DOS 6.22 onto a 20gb hard drive, I'm well aware that
 LL> it'll need 10 2gb partitions for it to see the whole drive, this isn't
 LL> a problem.

 LL> The computer has no problems recognising the drive (& I've had
 LL> Mandrake installed on this machine before utilising the full
 LL> capacity), but after partitioning with Partition Magic 8, DOS only
 LL> sees the first m2GB partition & point blank refuses to see the
 LL> extended partition as anything larger than 1.5gb & will not allow it
 LL> to be partitioned into logical volumes.

I've encountered similar problems with Partition Magic in the past...

If you've got Web access, I would recommend that you use Ranish Partition
Manager -- www.ranish.com/part/part240.zip

With this program, you should be able to wipe out _all_ previous boot
records (there is a possibility that Mandrake left something behind that
may be preventing full use of the drive).  PART will format the partitions
for you (but it won't affix labels to the partitions) and be sure to
specify which partition is the bootable one.  Reboot with a system diskette
that has SYS.COM on it; at the A:\ prompt, type SYS C: and it #_should_#
work when you try booting from the hard drive...

This program worked well for me when I partitioned three hard drives for
use on a Win98SE box (10GB, 6GB, 20GB).

           Cheers ... Gerald

... Crime wouldn't pay if the government ran it!  In Canada, they do.
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-040330 [msg of April 10, 2004]
 * Origin: For a reply, send a self-abused stomped Antelope to... (1:342/512)
                              

* An ongoing debate between Lance Lyon and All rages on ...

 LL: > I need to install DOS 6.22 onto a 20gb hard drive, I'm well aware that
 LL: >  it'll need 10 2gb partitions for it to see the whole drive, this
 LL: > isn't a problem.

AFAIK, DOS 6.22 can only "see" the first 8.2GB of any drive, so all of the
logical partitions will certainly have to at least start within (and probably
be contained completely within) this limitation. I still use native MS-DOS 6.22
daily, but have never been able to get DOS to go past that 8.2G barrier. :(

The only other way would be to boot the DOS 6.22 C: Drive as a virtual
"machine" using DOSEmu (under Linux) which *MAY* allow you to attach the
remaining logical drives, though I've never actually done this (I've booted
my MS-DOS 6.22 C: drive using DOSEmu but not tried to access other drives past
8.2G using same).

Linux as well as 32-bit Wins can work with larger drives (using LBA access or
something similar), while native DOS seemingly cannot. <shrug>

--
Be well,

 : Ben   aka cMech    http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/m/cmech617/
 :
 +    WildCat! Board 24/7  (337) 232-4155  33.6kBps 8,N,1
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-040330 r0405
 * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium Repository (1:393/68)
                                         

Hi Gerald,



* In a messge originally to Lance Lyon, Gerald Miller said: 



GM> I've encountered similar problems with Partition Magic in the past...
GM> 
GM> If you've got Web access, I would recommend that you use Ranish 
Partition
GM> Manager -- www.ranish.com/part/part240.zip



Solved it! Found an old copy of Seagates' Disk Manager softward - did 
the trick nicely :-) Thanks for the suggestion though - now to deal with 
ten partitions in a logical manner :-)



cheers,



Lance
---
 * Origin: Landover Amiga BBS - http://commodore.thebbs.org (3:712/313)
                                                                          

* In a messge originally to LANCE LYON, BEN RITCHEY said: 



BR> AFAIK, DOS 6.22 can only "see" the first 8.2GB of any drive, so all 
of the
BR> logical partitions will certainly have to at least start within (and 
probably
BR> be contained completely within) this limitation. I still use native MS-
DOS 6.22
BR> daily, but have never been able to get DOS to go past that 8.2G 
barrier. :(
BR> 
BR> The only other way would be to boot the DOS 6.22 C: Drive as a 
virtual
BR> "machine" using DOSEmu (under Linux) which *MAY* allow you to 
attach the
BR> remaining logical drives, though I've never actually done this (I've 
booted
BR> my MS-DOS 6.22 C: drive using DOSEmu but not tried to access 
other drives past
BR> 8.2G using same).



I managed to get around the problem by using an older copy of 
Seagate's Disc Wizard & the machine now happily has 10 2gb 
partitions C: - L: so the problem is solved, thanks for the suggestions 
though. So it *is* possible for DOS to see a drive larger than 8.4gb, it 
just needs a little help :-) Obviously, you could probably only go as far 
as about 40gb using native DOS, after that, you run outta drive 
letters :-( But, 20 is all I need - at least at the moment!


cheers,

Lance
---
 * Origin: Landover Amiga BBS - http://commodore.thebbs.org (3:712/313)
                                                                                                         

* An ongoing debate between Lance Lyon and Ben Ritchey rages on ...

 BR>> AFAIK, DOS 6.22 can only "see" the first 8.2GB of any drive, so
 LL: > I managed to get around the problem by using an older copy of
 LL: > Seagate's Disc Wizard & the machine now happily has 10 2gb
 LL: > partitions C: - L: so the problem is solved, thanks for the

Very interesting. Did you install the DDO overlay? Can you post your partition
table so I can see your layout?

Obviously something else is blocking my extra drives from DOS, possibly the
fact that they are not contiguous ...

--
Be well,

 : Ben   aka cMech    http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/m/cmech617/
 :
 +    WildCat! Board 24/7  (337) 232-4155  33.6kBps 8,N,1
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-040330 r0405
 * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium Repository (1:393/68)
                                                                                               

 -=> Quoting mark lewis to Gerald Miller <=-

 GM> I have to presume that the example "DISKCOPY TEST.IMG A:" was
 GM> provided because _most_ operating systems have a diskcopy
 GM> command.  The bottom line would be: use whatever command that
 GM> works for you to create the System disk(s)....

 ml> FWIW: i'm unaware of diskcopy being able to read disk image files and
 ml> translating them to a read disk(ette)... only RAWRITE and a few others
 ml> can do this, TTBOMK... 

DR-DOS (at least the later versions) had that capability because one of
the ways it was distributed was as a set of disk images you could grab
off the net. You also downloaded a ZIP file that had diskcopy and a
batch file or some such. So you'run the batch file and it'd prompt you
to insert floppies until you had all 6 or 7 disks needed for a full
install.

Boot off disk 1, and away you went.

--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                                                                                     

 -=> Quoting mark lewis to Archie Swan <=-

 AS> Then I would suggest that you read the DOSBOOK entry

 ml> i don't have anything called DOSBOOK...

It's the built-in (and very extensive) help for DR-DOS.
 
 ml> i might also suggest that others specify which diskcopy command they
 ml> are talking about to avoid problems and misunderstandings in the
 ml> future ;) 

Actually, *most* DOS commands have version dependent options since
around DOS 3.2. 
--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
           

 -=> Quoting Lance Lyon to Ben Ritchey <=-

 LL> Obviously, you could
 LL> probably only go as far  as about 40gb using native DOS, after that,
 LL> you run outta drive  letters :-(

Oddly enough, with DOS 2.x you could have up to *32* drives with the
right drivers.

We ran a networking setup that used a "disk server". Since DOS 2.x had
no LAN support, the thing was set up to let you create virtual "disks"
up to several meg each on the server and mount and umount that as
needed. 

Since there was no real network support in DOS, you had to mount drives
as either "sharable, read only" or "exclusive, read/write".

But the fun part was that you could assign drives @:, [:, ]:, ^:
and _:. I think you could even assign \:


--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                                                                                                        

LE>Oddly enough, with DOS 2.x you could have up to *32* drives with the
LE>right drivers.
    [...]
LE>But the fun part was that you could assign drives @:, [:, ]:, ^:
LE>and _:. I think you could even assign \:

Did that ability go away with later versions of DOS, or is it just not
documented?

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * We all live in a yellow subroutine.


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                               

 -=> Quoting Mike Powell to Leonard Erickson <=-

 LE>Oddly enough, with DOS 2.x you could have up to *32* drives with the
 LE>right drivers.
 MP> [...]
 LE>But the fun part was that you could assign drives @:, [:, ]:, ^:
 LE>and _:. I think you could even assign \:

 MP> Did that ability go away with later versions of DOS, or is it just not
 MP> documented?

I think it used something that went away in DOS 3.x.

Buyt it's been 20 years, so I don't really recall if it stoill worked.

It was built-in to the network client somehow or other.

--- FMailX 1.60
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:105/50)
                                              

* In a messge originally to LANCE LYON, BEN RITCHEY said: 

BR> Very interesting. Did you install the DDO overlay? Can you post 
your partition
BR> table so I can see your layout?
BR> 
BR> Obviously something else is blocking my extra drives from DOS, 
possibly the
BR> fact that they are not contiguous ...



Will do - I'll retreive the info off the drive tonite when I get home from 
work & post it.


cheers,

Lance
---
 * Origin: Landover Amiga BBS - http://commodore.thebbs.org (3:712/313)
                

Docsplace's, a popular fido access online BBS, has changed it's
address.

 docsplace.tzo.org

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Are you implying that I would Ever stoop to "Tagline Thievery"?
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                               

* An ongoing debate between Lance Lyon and Ben Ritchey rages on ...

 BR: >> Very interesting. Did you install the DDO overlay? Can you post
 BR: >> your partition table so I can see your layout?
 BR: >> Obviously something else is blocking my extra drives from DOS,
 BR: >> possibly the fact that they are not contiguous ...
 LL: > Will do - I'll retreive the info off the drive tonite when I get
 LL: > home from work & post it.

That would help, and if you need a PartInfo utility, just holler. :-)

I tried again with a new drive, first creating a 1 GB, C: Primary partition and
everything else in an extended partition with 7 logical 2 GB FAT-16 drives, but
no joy. :(

The second time I created one big extended partition with all logicals, but DOS
6.22 still won't see anything past around 8.2 GB <shrug>.

At least I got three more/new 2 GB drives for native DOS (from 6 to 9!) by
adding an additional/third physical drive <g>. Strange.

--
Be well,

 : Ben   aka cMech    http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/m/cmech617/
 :
 +    WildCat! Board 24/7  (337) 232-4155  33.6kBps 8,N,1
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-040330 r0405
 * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium Repository (1:393/68)
                                                                                                      

 LL> Hello Bob,

BK>>Docsplace's, a popular fido access online BBS, has changed it's
BK>>address.

BK>> docsplace.tzo.org

 LL> Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!

 LL> docsplace.tzo.com

 .com is correct.

 LL> You'll thank me later.  ;)

 I was going to thank you now, but I'll wait if you insist.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Retteb si flah dnoces eht tub, but the second half is better. +
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                                                                                

BK>Docsplace's, a popular fido access online BBS, has changed it's
  >address.

BK> docsplace.tzo.org

A few months back I registered with Doc's Place for the sole reason to
get fido access.

Only AFTER I entered all the requested personal information and
completed the registration process did he provide a notice that "new"
registrants were not allowed access to fido.

He cited previous problems as the reason.

That is most certainly his prerogative. But why does he wait until you
have provided all your personal info before letting you know that?

Is he harvesting personal information? I am not saying he is. I just
cannot think of another plausible reason for not letting you know BEFORE
you register that you will not be permitted fido access.

Anyway be advised and beware.

---
 þ OLX 3.10 31-2032 þ No, Taco Bell is NOT the Mexican telephone company!
 * Origin: BBS Networks @ www.bbsnets.com 808-839-6036 (1:10/345)
                                                                                               

From: "ron c" <ronald_c@mail.com>

Hi!

i'm just wonderin if you still have the DRDOS/OPENDOS
complete docs API? can you email it to me? or know any links

all the links i already tried are broken links!

appreciate your help, thanks.

Sincerely,

Ronald
-- 
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                  

From: "Ric Melton" <bearport@comcast.net>

Try this link:

http://www.drdos.com/dosdoc/index.htm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ron c" <ronald_c@mail.com>
To: <opendos@delorie.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 11:35 PM
Subject: OPENDOS/DRDOS Documentation Library needed


> Hi!
> 
> i'm just wonderin if you still have the DRDOS/OPENDOS
> complete docs API? can you email it to me? or know any links
> 
> all the links i already tried are broken links!
> 
> appreciate your help, thanks.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ronald
> -- 
> ___________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
> 
> 



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
      

...

 BB> A few months back I registered with Doc's Place for the
 BB> sole reason to get fido access.

 BB> Only AFTER I entered all the requested personal information
 BB> and completed the registration process did he provide a
 BB> notice that "new" registrants were not allowed access to
 BB> fido.

 BB> He cited previous problems as the reason.

 BB> That is most certainly his prerogative. But why does he
 BB> wait until you have provided all your personal info before
 BB> letting you know that?

 BB> Is he harvesting personal information? I am not saying he
 BB> is. I just cannot think of another plausible reason for not
 BB> letting you know BEFORE you register that you will not be
 BB> permitted fido access.

 BB> Anyway be advised and beware.

 I am confident that's not it, as a lot of people use docsplace
 for access.

 He does have an echo for those not otherwise allowed fido
 access, a local echo on the BBS. let him know about telling you
 before you enter all that info, see what he says.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... German anthologists are paid in quotation marks.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                                                    

* In a messge originally to Bob Klahn, Bob Brady said: 

BB> A few months back I registered with Doc's Place for the sole 
reason to
BB> get fido access.
BB> 
BB> Only AFTER I entered all the requested personal information and
BB> completed the registration process did he provide a notice 
that "new"
BB> registrants were not allowed access to fido.


Well, you can get it here from the 1st "call" (& I ask for very little 
personal info). It's web based too.


cheers,

Lance
---
 * Origin: Landover Amiga BBS - http://commodore.thebbs.org (3:712/313)
                                                                                      

LL>Well, you can get it here from the 1st "call" (& I ask for very little
  >personal info). It's web based too.

This is off-topic, but there are other people looking for another bbs by
which they can continue fido access. So I think it is germane to the
interests of fido.

I had heard, like Mr. Klahn wrote, that Docsplace is a "popular fido
access online bbs." From the taglines I see, I do not doubt it, as far
as his longtime members are concerned.  That is why I chose to register
with it.

But I believe new people should be aware of the other side of the coin
before they knock on Doc's door. I certainly wish someone had told me.

Thank you for the information about your bbs.

I am sure there are people in other fido conferences who would like to
know about your bbs. For example, I understand that the FoNIX bbs is
closing, and I see a lot of taglines with that name in them.

I really doubt many of them are going to be interested in Doc's "local
echo," which Mr. Klahn has been kind enough to tell me about.

Do you have telnet access? I have already found a bbs for fido access.
But I am interested in registering with yours. One, to support people
who welcome new guys. Two, I want to learn more about Amigas. By the
way, I do not object to providing personal information if I get what I
am let to think I will get by providing the information.

Now for something on-topic. I joined this conference because I recently
setup a multi-dos box, with PC Dos, DRDOS, and either OpenDOS or
another version of DRDOS. I am a little confused about the latter, it is
something 7.03.

---
 þ OLX 3.10 31-2032 þ If at first you don't succeed, call it v1.0!
 * Origin: BBS Networks @ www.bbsnets.com 808-839-6036 (1:10/345)
                                                                 

From: Florian Xaver <flox@drdos.org>

Hi!

I updated my site <http://www.drdos.org> AND updated the link to
the OpenDOS / Dr-DOS Documentation!

Much fun :-)

PS: Have you known about SQLite, a SQL Library which can be compiled in 
DOS?

Bye, Flo
-- 
Florian Xaver
<http://www.drdos.org>






--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
     

* An ongoing debate between Bob Brady and Lance Lyon rages on ...

 BB: > This is off-topic, but there are other people looking for another bbs
 BB: > by which they can continue fido access. So I think it is germane to
 BB: > the interests of fido.

My system is 24/7 and any Echoes not carried at present can be added quite
easily with a simple comment to the SysOp <g>. At the price of LD these days,
it's getting easier & cheaper, and often faster than Online (no Telnet, sorry).
See my Sig below for pertinent info. QWK support available ...

--
Be well,

 : Ben   aka cMech    http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/m/cmech617/
 :
 +    WildCat! Board 24/7  (337) 232-4155  33.6kBps 8,N,1
--- GoldED+/DPMI32 v1.1.5-040330 r0405
 * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium Repository (1:393/68)
                                                                                                                     

 LL> * In a messge originally to Bob Klahn, Bob Brady said:

BB>> A few months back I registered with Doc's Place for the sole
 LL> reason to
BB>> get fido access.
BB>>
BB>> Only AFTER I entered all the requested personal information and
BB>> completed the registration process did he provide a notice
 LL> that "new"
BB>> registrants were not allowed access to fido.


 LL> Well, you can get it here from the 1st "call" (& I ask for
 LL> very little personal info). It's web based too.

 I will keep that in mind.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Espresso - One small cup for man, one giant shock to the nervous system.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)
                

BB>This is off-topic, but there are other people looking for another bbs by
BB>which they can continue fido access. So I think it is germane to the
BB>interests of fido.

Mine is up 24/7 to dial-up.  No telnet, but I do offer a "QWK-mail-via-
e-mail" option to folks who are long-distance.

Mike
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 * KY, USA * v34


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                       

Hello Mike,

  MP> ...I do offer a "QWK-mail-via-e-mail" option to folks who are
    > long-distance.

That sounds like a cool idea.  Can the user add and drop conferences and send 
echomail from their QWK OLR too?

- Andy Ball

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>  MP> ...I do offer a "QWK-mail-via-e-mail" option to folks who are
>    > long-distance.

>That sounds like a cool idea.  Can the user add and drop conferences and send
>echomail from their QWK OLR too?

Yes, they can.  ;-)

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Here is a loud announcement... Silence in the studio!!


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                                                  

>That sounds like a cool idea.  Can the user add and drop conferences and send
>echomail from their QWK OLR too?

To expand on my terse reply from yesterday (<grin>), yes, and anyone
interested can contact me via e-mail at mlp(at)iglou(dot)com for details.

Mike

---
 * SLMR 2.1a * It's the Bucket woman!  She'll sing at me!!!


--- GTMail 1.26 
 * Origin: Kentucky's Capitol City Online * 502/875-8938 (1:2320/105.0)
                                                                                             

From: ganwer402@gmx.net

Maybe a little bit off topic but ...

I need a working installation of Aladdin/GNU/AFPL Ghostscript for DOS,
version >= 6.0. What I have is an inofficial version 5.5, but this one does
not do a particular good job on converting ps to pdf (problems with
embedding fonts). The Ghostscript page says that 6.0 and above is not
supported on DOS any more, but they have still included the Watcom/386 make
file, and I can't believe that djgpp is not able to compile it. My problem:
I have NO experience in compiling such a thing, and I do not have the
patience any more to gain that experience ;-)

Does anyone on this list have a already compiled version of Ghostscript >=
6.0, or is anybody volunteering to enrich society by compiling it?

Thanks in advance,

Paul

-- 
+++ Jetzt WLAN-Router für alle DSL-Einsteiger und Wechsler +++
GMX DSL-Powertarife zudem 3 Monate gratis* http://www.gmx.net/dsl



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                 

From: Gary Welles <gary@wellesway.com>

Paul may have reason for optimism in saying:

> . . .I can't believe that djgpp is not able to compile it.

and off to a good start by first seeing if he can't get out
doing the job himself.

People with experience and patience, will do this out
necessity, not to enrich society.  If Paul needs Ghostscript
>= 6.0, he may find himself uniquely qualified for the job.

-- Gary Welles

Commenting on his DOS DV/X port of Ghostscript 3.53,

DESQview/X Software Ports (a.k.a. desqview/x, dv/x, dvx)
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~bmm/dvx.html

Bruce Maggs wrote:

+----------
Ghostscript compiled out of the box using the makefile dvx-gcc.mak,
and djgpp Version 1.12maint4.  The only problem I encountered was that
djgpp would crash during the final linking step.  The problem was that
the file ld.tr, which contained a list of a large number of .o files
was just too big for djgpp.  With help from Tom Brosnan, I fixed this . . .
+----------



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                           

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

Is there a DOS that I can boot from a floppy that has drivers to 
allow access to NTFS partitions?

For the occasional badly infected system that folks bring to me, I 
used to bott from a DOS floppy and run F-Prot for DOS (yes, it 
requires putting in 4 floppies to get all the definitions loaded :-)

This would let me find all the infected files on Windows 95/98/ME 
systems.

Alas, it's useless for Win NT and Win XP.

And when you've got a system that can't even finish booting to 
windows, you *can't* use a Windows based AV program.

Thus, I'm hoping that there's a way to get accessto NTFS partirions 
from DOS.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                       

From: Dean Dancey <dtwo@sympatico.ca>

shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
> Is there a DOS that I can boot from a floppy that has drivers to 
> allow access to NTFS partitions?
> 
> For the occasional badly infected system that folks bring to me, I 
> used to bott from a DOS floppy and run F-Prot for DOS (yes, it 
> requires putting in 4 floppies to get all the definitions loaded :-)
> 
> This would let me find all the infected files on Windows 95/98/ME 
> systems.
> 
> Alas, it's useless for Win NT and Win XP.
> 
> And when you've got a system that can't even finish booting to 
> windows, you *can't* use a Windows based AV program.
> 
> Thus, I'm hoping that there's a way to get accessto NTFS partirions 
> from DOS.

Would a partitioning program such as Partition Magic be of any help?? 
As they are able to setup and partition drives for various formats for 
Linux, DOS, and NTFS.  Or a partition manager of some type may be what 
you are looking for.  Hope this helps even a little. ;-Deano



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: The gateway at Capitol City Online (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                  

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

Hi Paul,

On Fri, 28 May 2004 15:43:12 +0200 (MEST), ganwer402@gmx.net wrote:

> Does anyone on this list have a already compiled version of Ghostscript >=
> 6.0, or is anybody volunteering to enrich society by compiling it?

It has been already done. You can get GS 7.05 (well, a bit old, but
with decent PDF support already) compiled for DOS with Watcom C
(file: gs705dos.zip) at

ftp://ftp.gust.org.pl:21/.mount/TeX/GUST/contrib/PS-supp/

This is only the executable (gs386.exe). The other files (PS libraries,
fonts, etc.) are not OS-dependent so you can take them from another port
of GS 7.05 (e.g., Win32).

It works for me quite well.

Hope this helps,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                                   

From: "Michal H. Tyc" <mht@bttr-software.de>

On Sat, 29 May 2004 10:47:57 -0700, shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:

> Is there a DOS that I can boot from a floppy that has drivers to
> allow access to NTFS partitions?

The only NTFS driver for DOS I know is NTFSDOS from Sysinternals.
(But the freeware version is read-only, so you won't be able to
correct any problem.)

> For the occasional badly infected system that folks bring to me, I
> used to bott from a DOS floppy and run F-Prot for DOS (yes, it
> requires putting in 4 floppies to get all the definitions loaded :-)

Two 1.44M floppies should be enough (maybe three, the v**** definition 
files can have grown too much since the last time I made such a floppy
set, and NTFS driver will take some additional space as well). 

Hope this helps,

Michal



--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: BTTR Software (1:2320/105.999)
                      

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 29 May 2004 at 14:57, Dean Dancey wrote:

> shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
> > Is there a DOS that I can boot from a floppy that has drivers to
> > allow access to NTFS partitions?
> > 
> > For the occasional badly infected system that folks bring to me, I
> > used to bott from a DOS floppy and run F-Prot for DOS (yes, it
> > requires putting in 4 floppies to get all the definitions loaded :-)
> > 
> > This would let me find all the infected files on Windows 95/98/ME
> > systems.
> > 
> > Alas, it's useless for Win NT and Win XP.
> > 
> > And when you've got a system that can't even finish booting to
> > windows, you *can't* use a Windows based AV program.
> > 
> > Thus, I'm hoping that there's a way to get accessto NTFS partirions
> > from DOS.
> 
> Would a partitioning program such as Partition Magic be of any help??
> As they are able to setup and partition drives for various formats for
> Linux, DOS, and NTFS.  Or a partition manager of some type may be what
> you are looking for.  Hope this helps even a little. ;-Deano

Nope. What I need for this is a version of DOS that allows reading 
and writing to NFTS partitions. 

A partitioning program would roughly *triple* the time involved, as 
I'd have to change the partition back after disinfecting it. And 
that's assuming that it's *safe* to convert the partition after the 
viruses have been messing with things.

It'd be quicker to stick the drive in a system running NT and run a 
Windows based disinfector. Which isn't practical when making house 
calls.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:2320/105.999)
                                                                                                      

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 29 May 2004 at 21:27, Michal H. Tyc wrote:

> On Sat, 29 May 2004 10:47:57 -0700, shadow@shadowgard.com wrote:
> 
> > Is there a DOS that I can boot from a floppy that has drivers to
> > allow access to NTFS partitions?
> 
> The only NTFS driver for DOS I know is NTFSDOS from Sysinternals. (But
> the freeware version is read-only, so you won't be able to correct any
> problem.)

Even finding them would help. :-)

And if it ain't *too* expensive, buying it won't be a big problem if 
it'll work.

> > For the occasional badly infected system that folks bring to me, I
> > used to boot from a DOS floppy and run F-Prot for DOS (yes, it
> > requires putting in 4 floppies to get all the definitions loaded :-)
> 
> Two 1.44M floppies should be enough (maybe three, the v**** definition
> files can have grown too much since the last time I made such a floppy
> set, and NTFS driver will take some additional space as well). 

The definition files now each require their own floppies. Basically, 
the first one loaded after the program won't fit on a 1.44 along with 
the program (much less an OS). And the others are too big to fit on a 
floppy with the others.

In the order you have to feed the floppies in...

 5-23-2004  23:16       1,117,130  SIGN.DEF
 5-23-2004  23:16       1,279,405  SIGN2.DEF
 5-24-2004  15:40         498,021  MACRO.DEF

So I have a boot floppy, the F-prot program floppy, and the three 
definition floppies. All write protected except when I update them at 
home. :-)


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
 * Origin: Shadowgard (1:2320/105.999)
      

From: shadow@shadowgard.com

On 30 May 2004 at 19:05, Michal H. Tyc wrote:

> > The definition files now each require their own floppies. Basically,
> > the first one loaded after the program won't fit on a 1.44 along with
> > the program (much less an OS). And the others are too big to fit on a
> > floppy with the others.
> 
> > In the order you have to feed the floppies in...
> 
> > 5-23-2004  23:16       1,117,130  SIGN.DEF
> > 5-23-2004  23:16       1,279,405  SIGN2.DEF
> > 5-24-2004  15:40         498,021  MACRO.DEF
> 
> > So I have a boot floppy, the F-prot program floppy, and the three
> > definition floppies. All write protected except when I update them at
> > home. :-)
> 
> Hint: make two archives (e.g., ZIP; even if other compressors can give
> somewhat better ratio, PKUNZJR is probably the smallest decompressor):
> one with SIGN2.DEF, the other with other definition files and F-PROT
> itself). Set up a RAM disk in your CONFIG.SYS -- you can safely assume
> that the machine has enough RAM, if it is able to run WinNT. Then
> uncompress everything onto the RAM disk in AUTOEXEC.BAT, taking care
> about disk changes. Depending on DOS version (size of kernel files and
> command processor) used and other tools (CHDSK/SCANDISK etc.) you need
> to include in your set, you certainly can fit everything on three or
> even two floppies. All the above should save some time at boot, as
> decompression is almost instantaneous on the modern machines, while
> floppies are as slow as they always were.

Not worth the extra hassles in doing updates. I frequently have to do 
a quick update of F-prot (just in case) and then copy the files to 
the floppies just before going out the door. The bit of extra time 
reading in the defs and swapping floppies is negligible compared with 
all the zipping and unzipping, etc. 

Besides, it can take hours to check a large drive on a slower 
machine. So the floppy time isn't significant.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com




--- Internet Rex 2.29
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